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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that appeared in the

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Rendlesham forest incident it was

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completely silent it comes right over

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our heads really standing in the

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clearing he turned over to my father and

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held his hand and he looked in his eyes

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and said we're not alone welcome to

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podcast UFO for our live show

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we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time on the dark matter

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radio network please remember to visit

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the website podcast UFO calm for past

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episodes blogs and forums during the

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show feel free to participate live in

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our chat room and don't forget to Like

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us on our very active Facebook page

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hello everyone and welcome to the show

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this is Martyn Willis your host and

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we've got a great show it's free for

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everybody two hours long I'll get into

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that in just a minute Alejandro Rojas is

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coming up with the news shortly but

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first of all I want to talk about the

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get joyride comm platform they were

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bought by Google and for some reason

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Google does not want to keep it going

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so that is being shut down at the end of

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this month and so because of that I'm

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giving out free shows until I have an

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alternative plan as far as subscribing

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for the second part of the show and we

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have a listener who's going to help out

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in his name is Sam BOE cell and I am

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very grateful to him for he's going to

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show us away on how to do it and so

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another little bit of housekeeping is

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I'm gonna be off taking my first

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vacation since I started the show back

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in 2011 and I'm going to over to Russia

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for a couple of weeks and I am not gonna

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be able to do the show from there next

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week we have a pre-recorded show and

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it's a great one

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and I've it's already it's in the can

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ready to go we have dr. Erik Farooq he's

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going to be talking about UFO trace

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evidence that he was trying to get taken

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serious ient if ik community and get it

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published but no one took him

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seriously he then wrote a book he's a

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great interview he's in the UK and

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secondly one of my all-time favorites

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will have class spawn he is the director

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of international research and of the

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Sweden UFO great guy he'll be on so

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those that's coming up next week again

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this week we have mark O'Connell

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he's written Star Trek episodes of one

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of the ones that were in the top 100 of

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all episodes and he also has high

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strangeness UFO comm is going to be a

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great guest coming up for the full two

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hours and I want to thank everyone that

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has been supporting the show and hold

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tight we'll be back with some other type

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of platform and that's enough of me

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babbling how are you alejandro how was

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your holiday weekend it was wonderful I

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am I am wonderful because of it

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I said remains to be seen by the way

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yeah well we'll see I got I think so I

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am pretty sure that everyone will agree

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but yeah I was on the beach in San Diego

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the weather was great

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I jumped around in the waves I flew a

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kite I just had a lot of fun right

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when is the weather not good I mean

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every time I've ever been to San Diego

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it's been like perfect mm-hmm in the

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winter but I hope they do is soon yeah

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well you know last time we were there

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they got a little bit of rain so is

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there only like about a month ago where

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I spent the week I actually got to hang

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out with Ben Hansen my friend for for a

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day and but this time was a short trip

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you know it's only like a five-hour

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drive so we try to get there often but

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the weather what was funny is it just so

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happened that one of my co-workers it

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was her she spent a week out there as

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well when we got back I was talking

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about how wonderful it was and she's

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like oh it was so hot it's miserable and

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are you I'm like are you kidding we're

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from Arizona I didn't feel hot at all so

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sometimes people say it was a little hot

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I didn't see it so every time I've been

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out there the weather

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is phenomenal and it's a lot of fun and

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so I absolutely had a blast yeah yep one

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of my what are your favorite places

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sending you yeah that whole area it's

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just beautiful

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mm-hmm but I wanted to tell you about

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Russia oh okay

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when you go out there just because I'm

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not sure if you're aware of all the

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politics going on but I think it would

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be best if you not share any state

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secrets okay well because the Cold War

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is supposed to be over but there's

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tensions it's not really over you know

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there's a lot of tension going on we

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we've got these terrorists and things

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going on it's it's very tense relations

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and just don't get too comfortable watch

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your back

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hopefully everything will be fine but

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you might have one of these 2010 like

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the movie situations where you know

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you're in Russia and then things go

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really bad yeah predicting you here you

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can hear it on all over you know in

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different shows how I think you know

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mid-september there's going to be this

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major meltdown and asteroids coming at

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the end of the month so and I'm going to

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be there from the basically from the

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15th through the 30th so I'm going to be

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there when the asteroid said and when

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the economic smell of that but you know

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there could be some curse words

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exchanged over the telephone between

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Obama and Putin and that could upset

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people but if Putin you know really gets

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huffy and you know he decides to keep

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you as a hostage or something my advice

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I think he he seems like the type of

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person that flattery goes everywhere

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with him you know it's one of those

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things tell him how great his muscles

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are how great he's looking at what a

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great job he's doing and you'll probably

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be okay

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say you're way too sexy for your shirt

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person yeah yeah yeah exactly

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he'll be like oh really oh yeah yeah

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okay I'll keep that in mind just some

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advice I don't get stuck living at the

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airport or something

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yeah well anyway so let's let's move

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into the UFO news for this week

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UFOs so I wanted to give an update

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because I did write a story before I

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left to San Diego with an update on the

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Homeland Security UFO stuff and I wanted

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to get this out there I was waiting

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actually because I didn't even include

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this in the story and I really should

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have but I did email Customs and Border

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Patrol the local PR guy and she said ok

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yeah let me get you a statement never

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heard back from him emailed him and they

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said hey are you still getting me a

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statement haven't heard anything so I

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was surprised I heard from them at all

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but it seems they're not willing to

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share him any information about this

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video however I have heard from we've

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heard from a couple people so we've

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alluded to this and that there's this

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aeronautical and astronautical

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Association in France called 3af we've

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talked to them about them before and

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about how they assist the French UFO

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organization and also the Chilean

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organization sefa and investigating UFOs

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they did get back with these guys the SD

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Society or that for the scientific

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Coalition for ufology the guys who

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investigated the puerto rico video and

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they said that they they like their

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findings they thought they did a great

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job with their report and they also

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don't have an explanation and then Billy

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Cox talked with dr. Richard Haines to

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what used to be a NASA research

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scientist and who also investigates UFOs

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he doesn't like the term UFOs he doesn't

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use a he uses the term a nominal

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anomalous phenomenon and he runs a group

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called an ark app that look at this

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whole thing about more from the

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perspective of air safety but he liked

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the video too in the investigation he

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doesn't know what it was and he does

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thinks it deserves more research as well

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and so those are some of the experts you

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know that have communicated

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are given an opinion there's also

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another one that I've been in touch with

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and has been in touch with the group he

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doesn't want to use his last name or his

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position or the company he works for at

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least and because he's afraid of his

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career getting affected and he works

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with a whole group of guys that are FLIR

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technicians they work on the exact

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systems that you know took this video he

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says he's viewed thousands of hours of

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live and recorded video and him and his

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buddies don't know what the heck this is

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either in this video in fact he says

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they discussed this video quite a bit in

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the office

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none of them unfortunately are brave

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enough to go come forward because they

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say it could you know negatively hurt

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their career but I did ask him about

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some of the responses out there such as

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Mark Dantonio movements photo and video

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and analysts that perhaps the object was

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a balloon he thinks they measured their

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speed wrong but this expert says there's

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no way it's a balloon it's too hot so in

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other words the objects very dark and

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the other objects in the video that are

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hot are also dark that's a whole thermal

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imaging thing and how it works so he

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says it's definitely not a balloon it

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doesn't move like balloons that he's

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seen and it's too hot so he didn't

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believe it to be a balloon the other

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person Hugh had a theory as Chris

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Pazhani

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she's a paranormal researcher and she

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has a site called you debunked it so she

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believed she debunked this video and was

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able to see that it was a bird and

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various reason she thought again like

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Marc that they got the speed

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calculations wrong but she says you can

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see flapping and she had some other

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things that she pointed out again though

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this Dave the the expert says he does

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00:11:00,780 --> 00:10:58,779
agree with her about some of her points

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about the calculations with speed he

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doesn't think it's possible to be

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precise about how fast

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subject was going however he says he

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still doesn't believe it's a bird he

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says you definitely would have seen the

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wings he took he sent me a picture of

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some birds you can see we eat their

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shape is very apparent and it's not

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their wings are not cooler than the body

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you know there's an a great difference

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and temperature so you can't see the

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entire body of the birds but he puts in

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other aspects such as the movement of

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the object that show it's not a bird

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because birds fly in a particular way

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and this thing's moves steadily along so

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he just says him and his buddies at the

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shop they say they know these sort of

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systems better than anybody

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00:11:50,340 --> 00:11:47,980
and it's not you know anything that

272
00:11:53,010 --> 00:11:50,350
they've seen before and I was able to

273
00:11:54,390 --> 00:11:53,020
verify by the way Dave I do know his

274
00:11:56,940 --> 00:11:54,400
last name

275
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:56,950
I was able to verify he is who he is

276
00:12:03,000 --> 00:11:59,920
I've seen his resume I found him

277
00:12:05,420 --> 00:12:03,010
referenced online and this guy really is

278
00:12:10,110 --> 00:12:05,430
an expert he is the type of person who

279
00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:10,120
in fact the level of expertise he's

280
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:12,910
rated at is kind of a level where this

281
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:15,130
is a kind of guy that could build his

282
00:12:21,180 --> 00:12:17,680
own system he's just that much of an

283
00:12:23,970 --> 00:12:21,190
expert so so yeah really interesting

284
00:12:27,150 --> 00:12:23,980
stuff so it you know the the debate goes

285
00:12:32,490 --> 00:12:27,160
on and I think what's great is people

286
00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:32,500
like dr. Haines and at the 3af and this

287
00:12:38,130 --> 00:12:35,350
clear expert are coming in and it's just

288
00:12:40,620 --> 00:12:38,140
rare because we don't always have expert

289
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:40,630
opinion often it's online you know

290
00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:44,650
researchers amateurs for lack of a

291
00:12:50,250 --> 00:12:48,100
better word not to disparage their work

292
00:12:52,530 --> 00:12:50,260
because a lot of people do some great

293
00:12:53,790 --> 00:12:52,540
work but usually we have amateurs it's

294
00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:53,800
great to have some experts actually

295
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:56,350
looking into this stuff and giving some

296
00:13:03,000 --> 00:12:59,920
responses so exciting it is and it will

297
00:13:04,770 --> 00:13:03,010
be fun to just see where this thing goes

298
00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:04,780
I mean we've been talking about it for a

299
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:08,020
while it's really quite amazing and I

300
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:11,290
can't personally see anything about a

301
00:13:16,950 --> 00:13:14,890
bird and that myself but I understand

302
00:13:17,510 --> 00:13:16,960
about the speed part of it because of

303
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:17,520
the way

304
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:20,970
the maneuvering was happening it would

305
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:23,760
be awful hard to actually calculate the

306
00:13:29,810 --> 00:13:27,120
speed I think yeah and that's what Dave

307
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:29,820
says it would be very difficult however

308
00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:32,130
you know if you read the report the

309
00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:33,990
section where they did calculate the

310
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:36,960
speed it's some very interesting work

311
00:13:43,550 --> 00:13:38,910
they did there and they they do

312
00:13:46,010 --> 00:13:43,560
thoroughly you know I demonstrate how

313
00:13:48,380 --> 00:13:46,020
they determine speed but even if they

314
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:48,390
are off it I know it doesn't appear as

315
00:13:52,910 --> 00:13:50,910
though they're off much but it's

316
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:52,920
difficult to say but yeah really

317
00:13:59,360 --> 00:13:55,680
interesting like you said and you know

318
00:14:01,610 --> 00:13:59,370
if this is you know what it is if nobody

319
00:14:04,490 --> 00:14:01,620
is able to come up with any arguments

320
00:14:07,340 --> 00:14:04,500
against their findings still it might

321
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:07,350
not go anywhere I mean Robert Powell who

322
00:14:11,780 --> 00:14:09,090
was a part of this group he did the

323
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:11,790
radar report of the Stephenville UFO

324
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:13,890
sighting which is never after years it

325
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:16,290
has not been disputed then you have

326
00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:18,570
cases like Chicago O'Hare another great

327
00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:21,180
case adds that fairly recent but you

328
00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:23,280
know no you just it doesn't go anywhere

329
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:26,310
I mean we all know about it we learn

330
00:14:30,050 --> 00:14:27,810
about it people talk about it

331
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:30,060
periodically as a great case but that's

332
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:30,540
about it

333
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:34,800
speaking of O'Hare I am waiting for the

334
00:14:40,130 --> 00:14:37,410
day that someone that worked at that

335
00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:40,140
Airport that saw that that changed their

336
00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:42,030
career and you know are doing something

337
00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:44,100
else will come forward and actually talk

338
00:14:48,770 --> 00:14:45,560
about that all those people were

339
00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:48,780
anonymous in that and I would love if

340
00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:50,540
someone would actually come forward

341
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:52,740
maybe they have no interest in doing

342
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:55,410
that but hopefully someone will it would

343
00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:58,320
be great if they did it was only 7 years

344
00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:01,920
ago so I think you know pretty much when

345
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:03,630
you're in that career you're you're

346
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:05,940
there for your career so it might just

347
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:09,420
take someone retiring but then again you

348
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:12,690
know not to be well to be cynical and I

349
00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:13,830
don't mean to be cynical but

350
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,590
unfortunately we see this ever so often

351
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,480
you know someone could retire and then

352
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:19,920
we have a situation like we've seen

353
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:22,380
before where someone retires and they're

354
00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:24,000
they're really old and they finally come

355
00:15:29,449 --> 00:15:26,910
forward but they say oh yeah that was an

356
00:15:32,119 --> 00:15:29,459
alien and the aliens landed and

357
00:15:34,489 --> 00:15:32,129
I checked the aliens baggage so I know

358
00:15:36,919 --> 00:15:34,499
those railings and then you know they

359
00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:36,929
they exaggerate and add stuff and which

360
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:38,699
just hurts the credibility of the whole

361
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:42,240
story so yeah we'll see what happens

362
00:15:45,470 --> 00:15:44,490
hopefully someone does come forward you

363
00:15:48,109 --> 00:15:45,480
know what I realized

364
00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:48,119
we have talked as long as we usually do

365
00:15:54,139 --> 00:15:51,720
for our news I can't believe it yeah can

366
00:15:57,169 --> 00:15:54,149
I can I keep going now oh yeah yeah yeah

367
00:15:58,460 --> 00:15:57,179
let's go I'll be quick okay all right

368
00:16:01,160 --> 00:15:58,470
yeah

369
00:16:02,869 --> 00:16:01,170
next story well the next story is Exeter

370
00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:02,879
which is not a news story it's an old

371
00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:05,339
story in fact it's a 50 year old story

372
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:09,240
it happened in 1965 but the anniversary

373
00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:13,110
was just in September 3rd and we had a

374
00:16:18,619 --> 00:16:15,689
great story written by an author named

375
00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:18,629
Eric Hoffman submitted to the website

376
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:21,540
he's written for us before and he did a

377
00:16:27,489 --> 00:16:23,759
great job of telling in a concise manner

378
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:27,499
the story of the Exeter sighting and the

379
00:16:31,489 --> 00:16:29,730
investigation so I just wanted to

380
00:16:34,489 --> 00:16:31,499
remember it here there's also last

381
00:16:37,429 --> 00:16:34,499
weekend a festival near you

382
00:16:41,449 --> 00:16:37,439
that unfortunately I know you didn't

383
00:16:45,109 --> 00:16:41,459
make it to but that memorializes the

384
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:45,119
event but this is a great case and just

385
00:16:50,329 --> 00:16:47,610
for those who don't know much about it

386
00:16:52,699 --> 00:16:50,339
this happened in Exeter New Hampshire it

387
00:16:56,139 --> 00:16:52,709
started when this young man on Norman

388
00:16:58,699 --> 00:16:56,149
must Mescalero was hitchhiking home

389
00:17:01,220 --> 00:16:58,709
after seeing his girlfriend he had

390
00:17:02,660 --> 00:17:01,230
recently graduated from high school it

391
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:02,670
was the middle of the night it was like

392
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,640
2 o'clock in the morning and he was

393
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:07,679
gonna join the Navy so he's going into

394
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:10,770
the service soon so he had seen you know

395
00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:12,329
his girlfriend and Amesbury

396
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:15,449
Massachusetts was on his way home

397
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:17,970
hitchhiking his way home and but he was

398
00:17:23,059 --> 00:17:19,919
walking at this point when at 2:00 a.m.

399
00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:23,069
he saw these five bright red lights

400
00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:26,130
flashing in the woods and they started

401
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:28,380
moving towards him he was so frightened

402
00:17:34,130 --> 00:17:31,919
he jumped into a ditch at that point you

403
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,140
know he he noticed they eventually moved

404
00:17:40,399 --> 00:17:37,200
further away from him so he ran to this

405
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:40,409
nearby farm house and knocked on the

406
00:17:43,870 --> 00:17:42,320
door but nobody was home

407
00:17:46,629 --> 00:17:43,880
that's how somebody in the street so he

408
00:17:49,870 --> 00:17:46,639
runs to the street stops the car makes

409
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:49,880
them I let him in the car and tells them

410
00:17:54,490 --> 00:17:52,970
to drive him to the police station when

411
00:17:56,620 --> 00:17:54,500
he gets to the police station he talks

412
00:17:59,649 --> 00:17:56,630
to an officer Reginald Tolin

413
00:18:02,560 --> 00:17:59,659
who knows Mescalero and and said you

414
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:02,570
know knew him as an honest young man

415
00:18:07,810 --> 00:18:05,120
with high integrity so he took him

416
00:18:09,789 --> 00:18:07,820
seriously he got on the radio and called

417
00:18:12,940 --> 00:18:09,799
the other officers and said hey does

418
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:12,950
anybody know anything about this weird

419
00:18:18,669 --> 00:18:15,919
report there's a man named Eugene

420
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:18,679
Bertrand another officer who was in the

421
00:18:24,669 --> 00:18:21,970
area and he said you know some woman

422
00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:24,679
said had reported to him that she

423
00:18:28,990 --> 00:18:26,600
witnessed a huge object with red

424
00:18:30,990 --> 00:18:29,000
flashing lights that followed her car

425
00:18:33,610 --> 00:18:31,000
for 12 miles

426
00:18:36,190 --> 00:18:33,620
so Bertrand comes into the police

427
00:18:38,980 --> 00:18:36,200
station picks up Mescalero and they go

428
00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:38,990
investigate where Mescalero had seen the

429
00:18:44,850 --> 00:18:42,230
UFO when they get there sure enough they

430
00:18:47,710 --> 00:18:44,860
see this gigantic triangular craft

431
00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:47,720
coming out of the forest and it had red

432
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:50,809
flashing lights on it Bertrand was so

433
00:18:55,509 --> 00:18:53,450
freaked out he pulled his gun hi I guess

434
00:18:57,310 --> 00:18:55,519
it was just instinct yet but he

435
00:18:59,169 --> 00:18:57,320
reholster dit and said let's get in the

436
00:19:00,639 --> 00:18:59,179
car and they got back in the car and

437
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:00,649
they waited there while this thing

438
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:03,440
hovered over them they called for backup

439
00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:06,370
and a man an officer David Hunt

440
00:19:13,450 --> 00:19:09,500
came to the scene he also saw the object

441
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:13,460
and soon after hunt came to the scene it

442
00:19:20,169 --> 00:19:16,970
slowly flew off over the woods until it

443
00:19:22,149 --> 00:19:20,179
was out of sight so a really interesting

444
00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:22,159
sighting by police officers and

445
00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:23,990
everything there was a very thorough

446
00:19:31,299 --> 00:19:28,460
investigation and Hoffmann does a great

447
00:19:33,310 --> 00:19:31,309
job summarizing that investigation but

448
00:19:36,009 --> 00:19:33,320
essentially you know the Air Force came

449
00:19:40,090 --> 00:19:36,019
up with a lot of excuses there was a

450
00:19:42,909 --> 00:19:40,100
couple books written about it Raymond

451
00:19:46,029 --> 00:19:42,919
Fowler investigated it and wrote a book

452
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:46,039
about it so but essentially you know

453
00:19:50,350 --> 00:19:47,840
they felt that all of the explanations

454
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:50,360
fell through in fact at one point the

455
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:53,510
airport said okay you know it's not what

456
00:19:59,660 --> 00:19:55,410
we said it was you know we know

457
00:20:01,670 --> 00:19:59,670
and we know that one of the responses we

458
00:20:05,870 --> 00:20:01,680
gave is not possible given the witness

459
00:20:08,660 --> 00:20:05,880
testimony in case that was a refueler

460
00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:08,670
story where they had this the tanker

461
00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:09,960
that was supposed to be flying a

462
00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:12,630
refueler above they were saying that you

463
00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:14,190
know that was one of the debunking or

464
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:17,100
the attempt to debunking it yeah it's

465
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,510
one of the great I think it's one of the

466
00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:20,880
great stories one of the one of those

467
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:23,190
solid stories out there they that you do

468
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:25,290
here I would certainly think it's in the

469
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:28,530
top you know 50 stories anyway agreed

470
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:31,710
it's a really good case and so it's an

471
00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:33,510
interesting story and if people are not

472
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:36,120
aware of this case they should check it

473
00:20:39,950 --> 00:20:37,710
out because it's a really interesting

474
00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:39,960
case I went on the website

475
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:42,870
Oh months ago to see when this UFO

476
00:20:50,540 --> 00:20:46,650
festival was this year and I totally got

477
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:50,550
the date wrong I missed it so I really

478
00:20:56,780 --> 00:20:53,370
wanted to go but there's also a one

479
00:20:59,060 --> 00:20:56,790
going on in New England in October 16th

480
00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:59,070
it is pretty sure and I'm gonna be out

481
00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:01,260
that way to see my good friend Mark

482
00:21:06,020 --> 00:21:04,950
Dantonio he'll be there we're just

483
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:06,030
talking about him

484
00:21:13,370 --> 00:21:08,730
yeah a minute ago so glad he's doing

485
00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:13,380
well yeah one more story about one more

486
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:15,420
story you had mentioned earlier about

487
00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:19,200
Hell and brimstone coming this month and

488
00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:21,030
we're all gonna die or something like

489
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:24,150
this right and this story is some

490
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:26,670
evidence to back up your your crazy

491
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:32,490
claims they're not my claims just to get

492
00:21:40,130 --> 00:21:37,650
that clear okay but this is a giant

493
00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:40,140
fireball that was videotaped over

494
00:21:46,190 --> 00:21:43,260
Thailand so a lot of people caught it on

495
00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:46,200
video from Bangkok and the surrounding

496
00:21:53,390 --> 00:21:49,140
area and yeah it's a really cool video

497
00:21:56,540 --> 00:21:53,400
of this giant fireball in the sky pretty

498
00:21:59,030 --> 00:21:56,550
cool in fact one of the towns northeast

499
00:22:00,650 --> 00:21:59,040
of Bangkok got so freaked out that they

500
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:00,660
thought it was a plane crashing and they

501
00:22:06,380 --> 00:22:03,210
dispatched over a hundred rescue workers

502
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:06,390
to go find out what was going on I don't

503
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:08,010
know what these guys were doing because

504
00:22:11,050 --> 00:22:09,290
there was nothing found

505
00:22:13,630 --> 00:22:11,060
the ground I guess they were looking for

506
00:22:17,260 --> 00:22:13,640
something but the news came that there

507
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:17,270
was no report of a crashed plane and it

508
00:22:23,290 --> 00:22:19,610
was believed to be a meteorite and so

509
00:22:26,830 --> 00:22:23,300
the search was called off but it's kind

510
00:22:29,140 --> 00:22:26,840
of interesting the Bangkok Post posted a

511
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:29,150
compilation video of some of the videos

512
00:22:33,670 --> 00:22:32,000
that people had gotten and it's like

513
00:22:36,340 --> 00:22:33,680
everybody I don't know what it is

514
00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:36,350
all the mopeds have cameras on them

515
00:22:42,190 --> 00:22:39,260
because most of like five out of these

516
00:22:43,810 --> 00:22:42,200
six videos are people on mopeds Wow

517
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:43,820
which is just kind of funny I don't know

518
00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:45,710
what's going on I think that's a pretty

519
00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:49,880
anomalous phenomena on its own but yeah

520
00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:52,160
it's a very interesting video what's

521
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:54,800
funny too is people have been giving me

522
00:23:01,240 --> 00:22:57,440
a little bit of heck because I said a

523
00:23:02,770 --> 00:23:01,250
mysterious fireball caught on video and

524
00:23:05,230 --> 00:23:02,780
they're like it's not mysterious it's a

525
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:05,240
meteorite but actually there is a

526
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:07,250
mystery because nobody can agree what it

527
00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:12,080
is the local bangkok astronomer and a

528
00:23:17,530 --> 00:23:14,630
local bangkok astronomer was contacted

529
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:17,540
the planetarium there and they said they

530
00:23:23,170 --> 00:23:19,360
didn't think it was a meteorite because

531
00:23:25,390 --> 00:23:23,180
they didn't have any reports of it they

532
00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:25,400
didn't have any records of one happening

533
00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:27,350
and they suggested maybe it's a burning

534
00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:31,000
balloon interesting enough weird

535
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:35,150
however Phil Platt a former NASA Hubble

536
00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:39,410
Space Telescope guy he you read him a

537
00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:41,270
lie he does a lot he's a very he's a

538
00:23:47,050 --> 00:23:43,430
skeptic really so he writes about UFOs

539
00:23:49,090 --> 00:23:47,060
not in a positive manner often but he

540
00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:49,100
said it's definitely a meteorite because

541
00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:50,750
it happened so quickly

542
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:53,780
however the Bangkok Post looked up on

543
00:23:59,200 --> 00:23:57,050
this website sat view anything that

544
00:24:02,350 --> 00:23:59,210
could have been reentering and they

545
00:24:05,890 --> 00:24:02,360
found that there was likely space junk

546
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:05,900
that at that time there was supposed to

547
00:24:10,660 --> 00:24:08,570
be a rocket falling back into the

548
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:10,670
atmosphere so they say it's most likely

549
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:16,130
space junk but so so those people who

550
00:24:19,810 --> 00:24:17,720
are giving me heck can tell me are it's

551
00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:19,820
obviously a meteorite I don't know I

552
00:24:23,139 --> 00:24:21,830
think if you look here and I put a link

553
00:24:25,539 --> 00:24:23,149
to it because the Bangkok

554
00:24:28,659 --> 00:24:25,549
pose put a link you can clearly see that

555
00:24:30,669 --> 00:24:28,669
at that time there was some space junk

556
00:24:33,459 --> 00:24:30,679
supposedly supposed to be re-entering

557
00:24:35,829 --> 00:24:33,469
the atmosphere so most likely it was

558
00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:35,839
space junk or a meteorite and probably

559
00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:39,529
not a balloon on fire but it's very

560
00:24:46,389 --> 00:24:43,940
shocking video so it's really cool right

561
00:24:48,430 --> 00:24:46,399
yeah and all that can be seen in our

562
00:24:50,729 --> 00:24:48,440
show notes all links that will go back

563
00:24:52,810 --> 00:24:50,739
to open minds TV

564
00:24:54,489 --> 00:24:52,820
it looks like you're gonna have the next

565
00:24:57,369 --> 00:24:54,499
couple weeks off well I have the next

566
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:57,379
couple weeks off yeah yeah well that's a

567
00:25:04,299 --> 00:25:00,320
I'm gonna miss talking to you and if the

568
00:25:06,159 --> 00:25:04,309
world should end before your return and

569
00:25:10,389 --> 00:25:06,169
this is the last show I just want to say

570
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:10,399
that it's been fun and I've had a great

571
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:12,320
it's been a great run I think I'm

572
00:25:18,129 --> 00:25:14,450
getting teary eyed here now or the show

573
00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:18,139
and humanity yeah same here now I might

574
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:19,849
actually be on your show

575
00:25:23,349 --> 00:25:21,529
while I'm in Russia that's possible

576
00:25:24,849 --> 00:25:23,359
because the timing can work better I'm

577
00:25:26,139 --> 00:25:24,859
not going to be on my own show in the

578
00:25:29,349 --> 00:25:26,149
middle of the night but it's possible I

579
00:25:32,409 --> 00:25:29,359
can record with you and it'll be a lot

580
00:25:34,719 --> 00:25:32,419
of fun that will be awesome

581
00:25:36,969 --> 00:25:34,729
so I'm looking forward to that I really

582
00:25:38,889 --> 00:25:36,979
hope we can make that work yeah well

583
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:38,899
thanks a lot Alejandro and we'll be

584
00:25:43,149 --> 00:25:41,210
talking to you soon my pleasure talk to

585
00:25:44,379 --> 00:25:43,159
you soon all right hang in everyone for

586
00:26:26,470 --> 00:25:44,389
the quick music break we'll be right

587
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,350
here

588
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:31,750
you think get my last message how are

589
00:26:37,570 --> 00:26:34,970
you mark I'm good thanks good good

590
00:26:42,130 --> 00:26:37,580
welcome to the show thank you it's good

591
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:42,140
to be here yes so who is Mark O'Connell

592
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:46,730
I know Kurt Kurt a mutual friend

593
00:26:53,919 --> 00:26:51,200
former guest on this show was telling me

594
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:53,929
you'd be a great guest and you have

595
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:56,450
quite a background and I want to talk

596
00:27:01,030 --> 00:26:59,360
about that about your Star Trek episode

597
00:27:05,049 --> 00:27:01,040
so that you've written and about all

598
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:05,059
that your website high strangeness UFOs

599
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:08,720
calm and but first of all who is Mark

600
00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:11,210
and how did you get interested in the

601
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:15,350
subject to begin with well mark is a

602
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:17,840
writer who lives in southern Wisconsin

603
00:27:22,419 --> 00:27:20,240
and I have been interested interested in

604
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:22,429
science fiction as far back as I can

605
00:27:29,260 --> 00:27:25,690
remember one of my very first memories

606
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:29,270
was of the early 1960s I was born in

607
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:33,530
1960 and there was a very famous science

608
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:37,970
fiction TV show on on the air in 1962

609
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:39,770
through I think 64 called the Outer

610
00:27:44,740 --> 00:27:42,559
Limits and I can remember very vividly

611
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,750
for some strange reason that I still

612
00:27:50,049 --> 00:27:46,640
don't understand my mom liked to watch

613
00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:50,059
that show and here's a little you know

614
00:27:53,710 --> 00:27:52,160
two or three year old me I was terrified

615
00:27:57,100 --> 00:27:53,720
of the monsters they had some really

616
00:27:58,840 --> 00:27:57,110
scary monsters on that show but I was

617
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:58,850
fascinated and I guess that's kind of

618
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:01,760
what hooked me and I can then remember a

619
00:28:06,220 --> 00:28:03,710
few years later when the original Star

620
00:28:07,659 --> 00:28:06,230
Trek went on the air I was just in

621
00:28:10,659 --> 00:28:07,669
heaven because here was this fantastic

622
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:10,669
new science fiction show but there was

623
00:28:16,539 --> 00:28:13,850
there was one problem I had a very

624
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:16,549
strict bedtime and Star Trek went on the

625
00:28:20,830 --> 00:28:19,010
air a half hour before my bedtime but it

626
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:20,840
was an hour-long show so I can't

627
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:23,360
remember huh I can remember begging my

628
00:28:27,370 --> 00:28:25,730
mom pleading with her to just let me

629
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:27,380
stay up a half an hour longer on

630
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:28,970
Thursday night so I could watch the

631
00:28:34,810 --> 00:28:33,200
whole Star Trek episode and then it's

632
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:34,820
kind of a funny theme then I can

633
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:36,410
remember when I was about ten years old

634
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:40,210
there was a British TV show called UFO

635
00:28:47,460 --> 00:28:43,110
that in in Milwaukee

636
00:28:50,610 --> 00:28:47,470
was aired Saturday nights at 6 p.m. well

637
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:50,620
our family had dinner Saturday night at

638
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:53,200
exactly 6:30 p.m. every Saturday and

639
00:28:58,350 --> 00:28:55,330
again it was an hour-long show so every

640
00:29:00,119 --> 00:28:58,360
Saturday I started watching UFO and I

641
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:00,129
had to miss the second half it wasn't

642
00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:02,110
until I was see them much later and got

643
00:29:08,369 --> 00:29:06,190
to get the shows a UFO on DVD that I was

644
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:08,379
able to actually watch the second halves

645
00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:11,679
of all the episodes of UFO I know I just

646
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:14,440
pulled that UFO show up and I do

647
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:19,809
remember it myself so I have a long

648
00:29:24,749 --> 00:29:22,570
history and then in the other part of it

649
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:24,759
was that my mom was also it's funny how

650
00:29:29,850 --> 00:29:26,799
my mom is such a big player in this

651
00:29:31,379 --> 00:29:29,860
story she was a volunteer librarian in

652
00:29:34,169 --> 00:29:31,389
the small town where I grew up

653
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,179
Big Bend Wisconsin and she would take me

654
00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:35,919
into the library with her sometimes and

655
00:29:39,539 --> 00:29:38,049
I would some reason I just always

656
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:39,549
gravitated toward the science fiction

657
00:29:43,649 --> 00:29:42,399
section it was it was a very small

658
00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:43,659
library they couldn't have more than

659
00:29:49,230 --> 00:29:45,340
about 20 science fiction books but I

660
00:29:50,399 --> 00:29:49,240
probably read them all and yeah like I

661
00:29:55,879 --> 00:29:50,409
say I was just hooked I've been a

662
00:29:58,999 --> 00:29:55,889
lifelong fan ever since and so did you

663
00:30:02,279 --> 00:29:59,009
just pursue a writing career basically

664
00:30:04,769 --> 00:30:02,289
yeah I knew I wanted to I knew I wanted

665
00:30:07,529 --> 00:30:04,779
to be involved in filmmaking or TV in

666
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:07,539
some way spent some time in California I

667
00:30:12,570 --> 00:30:09,340
kind of learned learned a few hard

668
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:12,580
lessons that way ended up signing with

669
00:30:18,989 --> 00:30:16,090
an agent when when Star Trek The Next

670
00:30:23,850 --> 00:30:18,999
Generation came on in the late 1980s

671
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:23,860
I think 87 is when it premiered I got a

672
00:30:29,129 --> 00:30:26,769
got a script that got noticed at Star

673
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:29,139
Trek The Next Generation and that led to

674
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:33,450
me they invited me to pitch story ideas

675
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:36,970
which I did from Wisconsin a lot of

676
00:30:42,269 --> 00:30:39,039
people flew out to LA I couldn't really

677
00:30:44,909 --> 00:30:42,279
afford that I I was a I had a couple of

678
00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:44,919
young kids and I couldn't really be

679
00:30:49,289 --> 00:30:47,350
flying off to California every couple of

680
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:49,299
months to pitch stories not knowing if I

681
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:51,490
would actually sell one or not and in

682
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:53,529
the end it took me about you know took

683
00:30:57,279 --> 00:30:55,809
me probably half a dozen tries before I

684
00:30:59,019 --> 00:30:57,289
finally

685
00:31:02,169 --> 00:30:59,029
hit them on the right day with the right

686
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:02,179
idea and made my first sale and then and

687
00:31:07,329 --> 00:31:04,849
then made made for more for more sales

688
00:31:09,579 --> 00:31:07,339
to them over the next few years Wow and

689
00:31:13,479 --> 00:31:09,589
one of them ended up being I mentioned

690
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,489
earlier hit it was one of the top shows

691
00:31:18,820 --> 00:31:15,919
wasn't it yeah that was kind of a kick

692
00:31:21,149 --> 00:31:18,830
last year a Hugo Award winning science

693
00:31:26,259 --> 00:31:21,159
fiction author Charlie Jane Anders who

694
00:31:30,190 --> 00:31:26,269
writes for the website io9.com she put

695
00:31:32,169 --> 00:31:30,200
together a really fun list of what she

696
00:31:34,749 --> 00:31:32,179
considered the top 100 Star Trek

697
00:31:37,799 --> 00:31:34,759
episodes so she included all 700 some

698
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:37,809
episodes of the original series the

699
00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:41,570
animated series from the early 1970s and

700
00:31:45,249 --> 00:31:43,460
then of course Deep Space nine and next

701
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:45,259
generation and Voyager and enterprise

702
00:31:51,099 --> 00:31:48,049
and of that of that 100 one of my

703
00:31:52,989 --> 00:31:51,109
episodes was number 72 it was called who

704
00:31:55,419 --> 00:31:52,999
mourns her mourn and it was it was a

705
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:55,429
huge kick I was very I was very honored

706
00:31:58,959 --> 00:31:57,200
to make it on that list because there

707
00:32:01,749 --> 00:31:58,969
were a lot of great great episodes on

708
00:32:04,029 --> 00:32:01,759
that list we have a mutual friend Kurt

709
00:32:08,049 --> 00:32:04,039
Collins who's been on this show oh maybe

710
00:32:10,139 --> 00:32:08,059
three times or so he's he's a serious

711
00:32:13,209 --> 00:32:10,149
researcher and he wouldn't have

712
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:13,219
recommended you for the show unless you

713
00:32:18,329 --> 00:32:15,679
were a serious person so I want to talk

714
00:32:21,129 --> 00:32:18,339
about that what is your involvement with

715
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:21,139
have you done some researching yourself

716
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:24,289
with MUFON or something like yeah yeah

717
00:32:29,009 --> 00:32:26,450
and and I would like to just thank her

718
00:32:32,019 --> 00:32:29,019
for recommending me to you I've found

719
00:32:33,940 --> 00:32:32,029
Kurt's Kurt's been a regular reader of

720
00:32:35,499 --> 00:32:33,950
my blog and I always enjoy his comments

721
00:32:38,739 --> 00:32:35,509
and his insights he's a very interesting

722
00:32:40,829 --> 00:32:38,749
guy yes and I'm glad I'm glad to be or

723
00:32:43,479 --> 00:32:40,839
online acquaintances with him

724
00:32:44,619 --> 00:32:43,489
yeah about you know as a writer I'm

725
00:32:49,629 --> 00:32:44,629
always looking for interesting new

726
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:49,639
things to write about and in 2011 I was

727
00:32:53,619 --> 00:32:51,769
in one of those phases where I had

728
00:32:57,369 --> 00:32:53,629
nothing to work on and I wanted to come

729
00:33:00,369 --> 00:32:57,379
up with something fun to occupy me and

730
00:33:03,009 --> 00:33:00,379
uh I have a good friend who has been

731
00:33:05,529 --> 00:33:03,019
editing a photo blog for many years and

732
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:05,539
is very successful avidin for for years

733
00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:07,369
and years he was bugging me to start

734
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:09,049
writing a blog he just said you'd be

735
00:33:12,340 --> 00:33:10,370
you'd be terrific at it

736
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:12,350
you'd love it well I could never think

737
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:14,570
of anything that I really was interested

738
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:17,030
in enough that I would want to continue

739
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:19,610
writing about you know several times a

740
00:33:27,130 --> 00:33:24,170
week for weeks and months and years and

741
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:27,140
and until you know I just remembered oh

742
00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:29,570
god yeah UFOs of course I've always been

743
00:33:34,510 --> 00:33:31,750
interested in that I had kind of lost

744
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:34,520
touch with the field over the years I

745
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:36,530
hadn't really followed all the things

746
00:33:41,470 --> 00:33:37,730
that have been going on over the last

747
00:33:44,410 --> 00:33:41,480
probably 15 20 years but you know once I

748
00:33:48,190 --> 00:33:44,420
thought of writing a blog about UFOs the

749
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:48,200
rest just kind of came naturally I I

750
00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:50,000
quickly realized that there are a lot of

751
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:53,150
very smart UFO bloggers and writers out

752
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:55,370
there and I didn't really feel like I

753
00:33:59,380 --> 00:33:57,530
could compete with them so I decided

754
00:34:03,340 --> 00:33:59,390
that I would make my blog high

755
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:03,350
strangeness a little bit funny when the

756
00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:06,410
opportunity arose and to sort of portray

757
00:34:13,180 --> 00:34:09,230
myself as you know a little bit of a bum

758
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:13,190
blur in the UFO field so that's you know

759
00:34:16,750 --> 00:34:14,690
some of that is a bit of a stick

760
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:16,760
although but there's a lot of me that's

761
00:34:21,730 --> 00:34:20,480
really comes through as well but then

762
00:34:23,950 --> 00:34:21,740
when I started writing the blog I

763
00:34:27,399 --> 00:34:23,960
realized wow I need a lot of stuff to

764
00:34:29,260 --> 00:34:27,409
write about and I just happened to be on

765
00:34:30,730 --> 00:34:29,270
mu Hans web site one day and I saw the

766
00:34:33,010 --> 00:34:30,740
button on their web site that said

767
00:34:35,470 --> 00:34:33,020
become a certified UFO field

768
00:34:37,869 --> 00:34:35,480
investigator and that's when lightning

769
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:37,879
struck I thought of course I'll become a

770
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:40,490
MUFON investigator and I can write about

771
00:34:44,290 --> 00:34:42,260
that experience in the blog and that'll

772
00:34:46,060 --> 00:34:44,300
be a fun writing project and and

773
00:34:48,460 --> 00:34:46,070
hopefully it'll be of interest to some

774
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:48,470
people so that was the genesis of the

775
00:34:53,590 --> 00:34:51,530
whole thing four years ago and so I

776
00:34:56,050 --> 00:34:53,600
became a MUFON investigator I've been

777
00:34:59,940 --> 00:34:56,060
doing that for a little over three years

778
00:35:04,060 --> 00:34:59,950
now and that's just been a continually

779
00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:04,070
fascinating experience on so many levels

780
00:35:07,420 --> 00:35:05,780
I mean it's fascinating just to hear

781
00:35:09,220 --> 00:35:07,430
these first-hand accounts of people

782
00:35:11,950 --> 00:35:09,230
who've seen some really really unusual

783
00:35:17,350 --> 00:35:11,960
things but it's also fascinating just to

784
00:35:19,870 --> 00:35:17,360
learn about the kind of people who who

785
00:35:21,340 --> 00:35:19,880
report these experiences you know the

786
00:35:24,190 --> 00:35:21,350
psychology behind it is really

787
00:35:26,049 --> 00:35:24,200
fascinating to me as well so

788
00:35:28,180 --> 00:35:26,059
so yeah so that's kind of where I come

789
00:35:30,339 --> 00:35:28,190
in I've been I've been an investigator

790
00:35:33,789 --> 00:35:30,349
from MUFON for a little over three years

791
00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:33,799
I am now the I'm the assistant state

792
00:35:38,380 --> 00:35:36,710
director and the chief investigator for

793
00:35:41,140 --> 00:35:38,390
the state of Wisconsin we just brought

794
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:41,150
on two new investigators which which is

795
00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:43,130
a huge huge relief that's been great

796
00:35:47,140 --> 00:35:44,390
because we were we were a little

797
00:35:48,819 --> 00:35:47,150
short-handed for the last year or so but

798
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:48,829
our state director Mike Lucas does a

799
00:35:54,130 --> 00:35:52,130
fantastic job and it's it's a lot of fun

800
00:35:56,020 --> 00:35:54,140
and it's and it's reap like I said

801
00:35:58,809 --> 00:35:56,030
before it's just really fascinating work

802
00:36:00,549 --> 00:35:58,819
Wow okay if you're listening live you

803
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:00,559
can jump in our chat room that's at

804
00:36:05,289 --> 00:36:03,440
podcast UFO comm and pose a question you

805
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:05,299
can also call in any time during the

806
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:08,450
show and that number is 603 nine six

807
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:12,170
seven 403 oh just to let you know mark

808
00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:14,030
we don't get a lot of Collins maybe once

809
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:17,960
a show someone might call in so don't be

810
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:20,480
waiting for the phone to ring okay but

811
00:36:23,170 --> 00:36:21,650
you'll see it come up since you're in

812
00:36:25,210 --> 00:36:23,180
Skype you will see it come up and I will

813
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:25,220
take take the call if one does come okay

814
00:36:35,799 --> 00:36:31,130
right and so getting back to your your

815
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:35,809
interest in the UFO topic have you

816
00:36:41,980 --> 00:36:38,480
actually seen a UFO have you had a

817
00:36:44,319 --> 00:36:41,990
sighting yourself when I when I started

818
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:44,329
writing the blog in the summer of 2011 I

819
00:36:49,809 --> 00:36:47,170
have couple sightings that I now think

820
00:36:53,530 --> 00:36:49,819
well I'm pretty sure one of them was was

821
00:36:55,870 --> 00:36:53,540
a Chinese lantern the other one I'm not

822
00:36:58,299 --> 00:36:55,880
so sure about because it was stationary

823
00:37:00,220 --> 00:36:58,309
in the sky for as long as we watched it

824
00:37:02,380 --> 00:37:00,230
and my wife and daughter saw it at the

825
00:37:04,180 --> 00:37:02,390
same time but we were in a moving car

826
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:04,190
and we were on a busy highway so we

827
00:37:08,170 --> 00:37:05,839
didn't have a chance to pull over and

828
00:37:10,569 --> 00:37:08,180
actually observe it so I don't have a

829
00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:10,579
whole lot of evidence to go on that one

830
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:13,089
could have been a Chinese lantern too

831
00:37:17,770 --> 00:37:16,010
but but it's but it's still a bit of an

832
00:37:19,660 --> 00:37:17,780
unknown for me but that's that's all

833
00:37:22,299 --> 00:37:19,670
I've seen I'd love to see more but

834
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:22,309
that's it so far both those Chinese

835
00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:23,690
lanterns pissed me off

836
00:37:29,380 --> 00:37:25,849
they are pesky little buggers aren't

837
00:37:31,450 --> 00:37:29,390
they they are got that in drones and so

838
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:31,460
what what is of the sightings like in

839
00:37:37,810 --> 00:37:36,290
Wisconsin yes yes it's been kind of up

840
00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:37,820
and down

841
00:37:46,220 --> 00:37:41,880
this past year I have had a whole string

842
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:46,230
of really puzzling historical cases I've

843
00:37:51,650 --> 00:37:49,020
had a whole lot of people who have

844
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:51,660
decided for whatever reason that

845
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:54,330
something they saw 20 years ago or 30

846
00:38:02,810 --> 00:38:01,200
years ago was just really really

847
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:02,820
rattling around in their head for too

848
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:04,410
long and they needed to finally tell

849
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:06,960
somebody about it I have a theory on

850
00:38:13,610 --> 00:38:09,570
that and what is it and it's come up on

851
00:38:16,610 --> 00:38:13,620
show before and that is a lot of people

852
00:38:19,580 --> 00:38:16,620
watching this hangar 1 and you know I

853
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:19,590
myself mmm

854
00:38:23,780 --> 00:38:21,150
I'm not going to critique the show too

855
00:38:25,820 --> 00:38:23,790
much they they let a lot of things go

856
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:25,830
that I don't think should they should

857
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:31,410
let go as being real but still I think

858
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:34,110
that any show like that causes awareness

859
00:38:39,590 --> 00:38:36,290
and people are all around the country

860
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:39,600
MUFON investigators are talking about

861
00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:42,060
old cases are coming to light because

862
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:43,350
people are watching that and they're

863
00:38:50,060 --> 00:38:46,890
deciding to contact MUFON because it's

864
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:50,070
so publicized in that show and so that's

865
00:38:55,490 --> 00:38:53,130
why the old the old sightings are coming

866
00:38:57,290 --> 00:38:55,500
forth yeah that's definitely been been

867
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:57,300
my experience Martin I've heard that

868
00:39:02,300 --> 00:39:00,240
from a lot of people who they say yeah I

869
00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:02,310
was I was watching and sometimes it's

870
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:04,260
hangar 1 sometimes it's one of the other

871
00:39:09,740 --> 00:39:06,930
shows but you say yeah I was I saw this

872
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:09,750
show on TV and they showed something

873
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:11,730
that looked a whole lot like what I saw

874
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:14,610
and I suddenly realized hey maybe other

875
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:16,800
people have seen the same thing and that

876
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:18,450
becomes a big driver for a lot of these

877
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:20,490
people it's has anybody else seen the

878
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:23,700
same thing I saw so so yeah it's an

879
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:26,400
interesting chain reaction that kind of

880
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:28,680
leads people to report their cases so

881
00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:30,690
yeah the last year or so lots and lots

882
00:39:37,220 --> 00:39:33,510
of historic cases the summer before that

883
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:37,230
the summer of 2014 we actually had a

884
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:40,290
little flap right here in south-central

885
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:43,490
Wisconsin right in my home county

886
00:39:50,450 --> 00:39:46,890
Jefferson County I had within the space

887
00:39:55,590 --> 00:39:50,460
of two months I had I think 5

888
00:39:57,570 --> 00:39:55,600
four or five sightings that were very

889
00:40:00,030 --> 00:39:57,580
very similar there they weren't all on

890
00:40:03,470 --> 00:40:00,040
the same night so it wasn't people

891
00:40:06,090 --> 00:40:03,480
seeing the exact same thing but I had

892
00:40:08,370 --> 00:40:06,100
several reports spread over this time

893
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:08,380
period that were remarkably similar

894
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:11,230
reported by people who I am assuming

895
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:15,130
didn't know each other and in most of

896
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,810
the cases there were multiple witnesses

897
00:40:23,070 --> 00:40:19,200
most three out of the four cases

898
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:23,080
involved families where the husband and

899
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:25,450
wife and at least one of their kids saw

900
00:40:35,490 --> 00:40:29,170
what was in the sky the fourth case was

901
00:40:37,109 --> 00:40:35,500
a married couple but but the family

902
00:40:38,970 --> 00:40:37,119
cases I thought were really interesting

903
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:38,980
because the dynamic kind of carried out

904
00:40:44,130 --> 00:40:40,630
the same way it was like the dad saw it

905
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,140
first called called the kid out cut they

906
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:46,960
called mom out and everybody saw it and

907
00:40:52,650 --> 00:40:50,410
in one case in particular the dad and

908
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:52,660
the son hopped in their car to chase

909
00:40:57,390 --> 00:40:55,450
this thing down and because their first

910
00:40:58,890 --> 00:40:57,400
thought was it looked like people over

911
00:41:01,830 --> 00:40:58,900
on the next block we're shooting laser

912
00:41:03,420 --> 00:41:01,840
pointers up in the trees so they thought

913
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:03,430
oh that's kind of interesting let's go

914
00:41:06,090 --> 00:41:04,720
see what's happening so they got in

915
00:41:07,380 --> 00:41:06,100
their car drove around the block well

916
00:41:09,300 --> 00:41:07,390
they couldn't see anything going on with

917
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:09,310
their neighbors but they could still see

918
00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:11,050
this thing in the sky only now it seemed

919
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:13,510
even further away so think over the

920
00:41:19,230 --> 00:41:16,560
course of about 45 minutes they drove to

921
00:41:21,090 --> 00:41:19,240
three different spots here in town in

922
00:41:23,849 --> 00:41:21,100
our town court Atkinson and then drove

923
00:41:27,090 --> 00:41:23,859
out of town and kept seeing this this

924
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:27,100
thing and what they saw was was a white

925
00:41:32,609 --> 00:41:30,490
glowing sphere that towards the end

926
00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:32,619
seemed to be sort of wrapped in a

927
00:41:37,859 --> 00:41:35,380
cloud-like substance but there were also

928
00:41:42,090 --> 00:41:37,869
some signs of blue and orange lights

929
00:41:44,370 --> 00:41:42,100
around the sphere and they watched it

930
00:41:46,890 --> 00:41:44,380
out on this lonely Highway outside of

931
00:41:49,020 --> 00:41:46,900
town for about 15 minutes and then it

932
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:49,030
seemed to start moving towards them and

933
00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:51,250
they got very scared and hightailed it

934
00:41:55,500 --> 00:41:53,710
home and they never saw it again so that

935
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,510
that was a real battler they have all

936
00:42:00,330 --> 00:41:57,760
those cases right here within like 10

937
00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:00,340
miles of where I live all taking place

938
00:42:06,270 --> 00:42:03,820
in May and June of 2014

939
00:42:08,090 --> 00:42:06,280
and all involving really kind of similar

940
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,100
I guess we could call them you know

941
00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:10,480
hynix definition of the meandering

942
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:13,060
nocturnal lights they were all the the

943
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:15,010
objects that were described we're all

944
00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:17,410
very similar and then and then it

945
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:19,750
abruptly stopped you know we got to the

946
00:42:22,650 --> 00:42:21,010
end of June there were no more reports

947
00:42:24,780 --> 00:42:22,660
nobody ever saw anything like that again

948
00:42:27,930 --> 00:42:24,790
in our area or at least nobody reported

949
00:42:31,410 --> 00:42:27,940
it Wow Wow good stuff

950
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:31,420
historically has there been any major

951
00:42:37,770 --> 00:42:35,170
case that happened in Wisconsin that

952
00:42:43,590 --> 00:42:37,780
comes to mind yeah one just came up this

953
00:42:47,130 --> 00:42:43,600
summer that would that is is still being

954
00:42:49,110 --> 00:42:47,140
investigated I I have to apologize I

955
00:42:50,130 --> 00:42:49,120
just I had a lot of life stuff going on

956
00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:50,140
in the last month so I've basically

957
00:42:55,530 --> 00:42:53,350
taken the last month off from blogging

958
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:55,540
and MUFON works on a little rusty you'll

959
00:43:00,240 --> 00:42:57,130
have to just forgive me that's our

960
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:00,250
problem but but yeah earlier this summer

961
00:43:07,530 --> 00:43:05,440
a gentleman reported a case that took

962
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:07,540
place at a military base in central

963
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:09,610
Wisconsin called Fort McCoy took place

964
00:43:14,910 --> 00:43:12,490
in 1980 this gentleman was retired and

965
00:43:17,940 --> 00:43:14,920
living in I can't remember somewhere

966
00:43:20,070 --> 00:43:17,950
down in the southeast we had a really

967
00:43:22,430 --> 00:43:20,080
fascinating talk he was very he seen

968
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:22,440
came off as very sincere on the phone

969
00:43:27,870 --> 00:43:24,970
what had happened was he had been

970
00:43:30,690 --> 00:43:27,880
stationed at Fort McCoy in 1980 when the

971
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:30,700
fort was used this was not a combat fort

972
00:43:37,140 --> 00:43:34,480
it was a training base and it was being

973
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:37,150
used to house all these Cuban refugees

974
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:39,250
who had come over on the flotilla in

975
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:41,890
1980 when Castro basically opened up the

976
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:44,800
prisons and let you know let all the bad

977
00:43:50,820 --> 00:43:47,440
eggs loose and they all came over to the

978
00:43:52,860 --> 00:43:50,830
u.s. well you know a couple thousand of

979
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:52,870
them ended up in Fort McCoy in Wisconsin

980
00:43:56,910 --> 00:43:54,400
and this gentleman was part of the

981
00:44:01,170 --> 00:43:56,920
battalion that had been brought in just

982
00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:01,180
to help patrol the base and at one point

983
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:03,340
some of the some of the refugees

984
00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:05,710
actually tore down a fence and tried to

985
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:08,380
escape so this gentleman had to be part

986
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:10,210
of a living wall they made a living

987
00:44:14,670 --> 00:44:12,400
fence to cover this part of the fence

988
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:14,680
that had been torn down and one night

989
00:44:20,769 --> 00:44:17,359
he's out with 50 other guys the

990
00:44:23,170 --> 00:44:20,779
this informing this human chain and it's

991
00:44:25,630 --> 00:44:23,180
his turn to go to sleep and just as he's

992
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:25,640
getting into his sleeping bag he sees

993
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:28,450
this object appear from behind the trees

994
00:44:37,509 --> 00:44:33,890
it's roughly rectangular in shape and it

995
00:44:39,009 --> 00:44:37,519
has he called it a window but then he

996
00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:39,019
said it wasn't really a window because

997
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:40,910
he could tell it didn't have glass in it

998
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:43,130
it was more of a force shield covering

999
00:44:49,089 --> 00:44:45,890
this opening but he could see two beings

1000
00:44:51,809 --> 00:44:49,099
inside this window and as this object

1001
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:51,819
moved across the sky from right to left

1002
00:44:57,130 --> 00:44:55,130
it it seemed to him that the heads of

1003
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:57,140
these beings were turning as though they

1004
00:45:01,420 --> 00:44:59,119
were watching him as the craft went by

1005
00:45:04,359 --> 00:45:01,430
and then it disappeared behind the trees

1006
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:04,369
and this guy's lieutenant was standing

1007
00:45:08,650 --> 00:45:07,130
right next to him when he saw this and

1008
00:45:11,309 --> 00:45:08,660
he looked at his lieutenant and his

1009
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:11,319
lieutenant just said don't say a word

1010
00:45:17,380 --> 00:45:15,890
and he went to bed he got into his

1011
00:45:18,670 --> 00:45:17,390
sleeping bag and went to bed and he said

1012
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:18,680
mark that was one of the strangest

1013
00:45:23,289 --> 00:45:20,930
things about this whole story he said

1014
00:45:26,380 --> 00:45:23,299
after this after this bizarre thing I

1015
00:45:28,059 --> 00:45:26,390
had just seen in the sky I put my head

1016
00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:28,069
on the pillow and I fell into the

1017
00:45:32,769 --> 00:45:31,220
deepest sleep I've ever had he said I

1018
00:45:34,809 --> 00:45:32,779
should have been wide awake and

1019
00:45:36,579 --> 00:45:34,819
terrified he said I still can't

1020
00:45:39,549 --> 00:45:36,589
understand why I was able to fall asleep

1021
00:45:41,470 --> 00:45:39,559
and sleep so soundly so and there are a

1022
00:45:42,970 --> 00:45:41,480
lot of interesting details to this he

1023
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:42,980
said that while he was watching it he

1024
00:45:47,319 --> 00:45:45,410
looked up and down the line of his his

1025
00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:47,329
fellow infantrymen who were forming this

1026
00:45:51,460 --> 00:45:49,430
this human wall and he said they were

1027
00:45:53,710 --> 00:45:51,470
all staring up at it and a lot of guys

1028
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:53,720
were had cameras on them and they were

1029
00:45:59,170 --> 00:45:56,170
taking pictures with the cameras and

1030
00:46:00,849 --> 00:45:59,180
then the next day he when he got up the

1031
00:46:02,380 --> 00:46:00,859
next day he asked his lieutenant he said

1032
00:46:05,470 --> 00:46:02,390
well should we tell the colonel about

1033
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:05,480
this and the lieutenant said you are on

1034
00:46:10,809 --> 00:46:08,329
your own don't I don't I don't want to

1035
00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:10,819
know what you're gonna do so they saw

1036
00:46:16,359 --> 00:46:12,980
they saw the commander of the base at

1037
00:46:17,799 --> 00:46:16,369
breakfast and this guy he went up and

1038
00:46:19,900 --> 00:46:17,809
talked to the commander of the base and

1039
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:19,910
and he said you know I saw something

1040
00:46:24,759 --> 00:46:23,210
very strange you know out on the out on

1041
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:24,769
the perimeter last night and I believe a

1042
00:46:30,609 --> 00:46:27,410
lot of the other guys did too and the

1043
00:46:31,330 --> 00:46:30,619
commander the base said he said I tell

1044
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:31,340
you what

1045
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:34,160
he said if any of the local papers

1046
00:46:41,140 --> 00:46:36,770
report on it then we will file an

1047
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:41,150
official report and this the guy who

1048
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:43,280
reported the case he just he said well

1049
00:46:48,610 --> 00:46:46,130
of course the CEO knew that as long as

1050
00:46:50,740 --> 00:46:48,620
we were doing this human fence duty none

1051
00:46:52,810 --> 00:46:50,750
of us was ever gonna see a local paper

1052
00:46:54,820 --> 00:46:52,820
we were never you know we had no chance

1053
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:54,830
to get off the base and buy a local

1054
00:46:59,050 --> 00:46:57,050
paper so he said that was the CEOs way

1055
00:47:00,340 --> 00:46:59,060
of you know kind of cleverly just

1056
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:00,350
brushing it under the rug

1057
00:47:07,330 --> 00:47:04,880
so but what this guy did next was really

1058
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:07,340
interesting he said he said I still have

1059
00:47:12,850 --> 00:47:10,850
the duty roster because he was he was

1060
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:12,860
the lieutenant's he was direct that I

1061
00:47:17,710 --> 00:47:14,810
don't know the Rings I apologized to if

1062
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:17,720
they're military folks out there he he

1063
00:47:23,980 --> 00:47:20,480
was the aide to the lieutenant who was

1064
00:47:25,930 --> 00:47:23,990
supervising the human wall so he sort of

1065
00:47:27,580 --> 00:47:25,940
had the records and things and he C told

1066
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:27,590
me I still have the duty roster from

1067
00:47:33,550 --> 00:47:31,370
that night and he said I always wonder

1068
00:47:36,460 --> 00:47:33,560
if any of these guys could be contacted

1069
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:36,470
if they would remember anything so he

1070
00:47:39,940 --> 00:47:38,450
sent me a copy of the duty roster we

1071
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:39,950
have the duty roster and I've been

1072
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:41,510
talking with my colleagues here at

1073
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:46,250
Wisconsin MUFON about well first of all

1074
00:47:50,140 --> 00:47:48,170
whether we can do anything with that

1075
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:50,150
information and if we can then what is

1076
00:47:54,550 --> 00:47:53,090
the best approach because you know we

1077
00:47:57,070 --> 00:47:54,560
would be contacting people about

1078
00:48:00,190 --> 00:47:57,080
something that happened over you know 35

1079
00:48:02,380 --> 00:48:00,200
years ago and they may they may not want

1080
00:48:04,510 --> 00:48:02,390
to talk about it they may not be happy

1081
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:04,520
that somebody you know had their name

1082
00:48:08,980 --> 00:48:07,370
and called them so so we've been a

1083
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:08,990
little stymied on that it would be

1084
00:48:13,660 --> 00:48:12,050
really it would be it would be a really

1085
00:48:15,850 --> 00:48:13,670
a big deal if we could get some crab

1086
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:15,860
eration on it but but it presents some

1087
00:48:21,550 --> 00:48:17,590
ethical problems that we haven't really

1088
00:48:23,380 --> 00:48:21,560
quite been able to solve but it's been a

1089
00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:23,390
really fascinating case and the

1090
00:48:28,300 --> 00:48:26,870
gentleman has as he says he's remembered

1091
00:48:30,430 --> 00:48:28,310
more details he's been really great

1092
00:48:33,070 --> 00:48:30,440
about sending more information about the

1093
00:48:37,270 --> 00:48:33,080
experience so it's a it's it's a his

1094
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:37,280
description is is very detailed and and

1095
00:48:43,690 --> 00:48:41,440
it and it in my eyes very very credible

1096
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:43,700
he really impressed me that with his

1097
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:44,240
sincerity

1098
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:45,110
he's been

1099
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:47,450
sitting on this story for 35 years he's

1100
00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:50,480
never told a soul you know outside of

1101
00:48:55,420 --> 00:48:53,720
his commanders and he you know he has

1102
00:48:57,550 --> 00:48:55,430
absolutely nothing to gain by reporting

1103
00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:57,560
this story now he just saw something on

1104
00:49:00,910 --> 00:48:58,970
TV that reminded him of it and he

1105
00:49:03,250 --> 00:49:00,920
thought oh well I wonder if anybody else

1106
00:49:05,410 --> 00:49:03,260
has seen anything like this so well-well

1107
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:05,420
say that's that's probably the best one

1108
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:07,490
of this latest badge yeah it actually

1109
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:10,070
gave someone on the chatroom goosebumps

1110
00:49:13,870 --> 00:49:13,130
they said oh yeah I felt the same way

1111
00:49:16,750 --> 00:49:13,880
believe me

1112
00:49:20,350 --> 00:49:16,760
yeah well you know you you very very

1113
00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:20,360
rarely hear about anyone seeing actual

1114
00:49:26,650 --> 00:49:23,360
beings there's probably only a handful

1115
00:49:27,970 --> 00:49:26,660
of stories that I've heard about and you

1116
00:49:31,150 --> 00:49:27,980
know one of them I don't know if you've

1117
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:31,160
ever seen the video of the turkey UFO

1118
00:49:36,970 --> 00:49:34,730
over over the sea that one that one

1119
00:49:40,210 --> 00:49:36,980
shows what look looks like it could be

1120
00:49:43,420 --> 00:49:40,220
beings and they moving and everything

1121
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:43,430
pardon me well another thing if I could

1122
00:49:47,140 --> 00:49:45,170
just elaborate a little more on this

1123
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:47,150
gentleman's on this gentleman's story

1124
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:50,410
that he told me one of the things that I

1125
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:52,730
talked before about the psychology of

1126
00:49:57,610 --> 00:49:55,040
under understanding you know why people

1127
00:50:00,310 --> 00:49:57,620
report things another another aspect of

1128
00:50:02,470 --> 00:50:00,320
that is I'm really interested to hear

1129
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:02,480
how people express themselves and how

1130
00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:04,880
they describe things and so there were

1131
00:50:10,540 --> 00:50:07,310
certain things in this gentleman's story

1132
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:10,550
that he was really he was trying so hard

1133
00:50:15,790 --> 00:50:13,850
to describe to me but he just couldn't

1134
00:50:19,150 --> 00:50:15,800
come up with the word even after 35

1135
00:50:22,660 --> 00:50:19,160
years he still couldn't come up with the

1136
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:22,670
right words to describe what he saw and

1137
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:23,450
what he felt

1138
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:26,000
for instance this this though the the

1139
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:28,610
window in the side of the craft that he

1140
00:50:32,830 --> 00:50:30,170
said wasn't really a window because he

1141
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:32,840
could tell there wasn't glass in it he

1142
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:34,370
you know he was really struggling to

1143
00:50:38,410 --> 00:50:36,410
come up with an explanation for the the

1144
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:38,420
force field or whatever it was that he

1145
00:50:42,460 --> 00:50:40,370
thought some thought was in that in that

1146
00:50:44,260 --> 00:50:42,470
hole the other thing was that as this

1147
00:50:47,530 --> 00:50:44,270
object moved past there was sort of

1148
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:47,540
there was sort of what looked like sort

1149
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:49,520
of a rocket exhaust coming out of the

1150
00:50:57,250 --> 00:50:52,610
end of it but it wasn't really moving it

1151
00:50:58,510 --> 00:50:57,260
was just sort of static and he he tried

1152
00:51:01,870 --> 00:50:58,520
so hard to describe

1153
00:51:04,030 --> 00:51:01,880
flame the static flame to me and after

1154
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:04,040
about a minute minute and a half he just

1155
00:51:07,420 --> 00:51:06,050
gave up he just said he just said I just

1156
00:51:10,420 --> 00:51:07,430
don't really know what else to tell you

1157
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:10,430
about it I'm not getting it across I I

1158
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:13,520
can't really explain exactly what I saw

1159
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:16,640
and and and I keep at and I just can't

1160
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:18,410
come up with the right words so you know

1161
00:51:23,770 --> 00:51:20,480
in that case he just gave up he could

1162
00:51:26,290 --> 00:51:23,780
not figure out how to convey you know

1163
00:51:29,230 --> 00:51:26,300
what he had seen question on the message

1164
00:51:32,020 --> 00:51:29,240
board someone wants to know did he get

1165
00:51:35,350 --> 00:51:32,030
into details when he describing the

1166
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:35,360
beings all he saw her silhouettes in

1167
00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:37,280
fact he sent when he sent me the duty

1168
00:51:44,410 --> 00:51:40,190
rosters he also sent me a sketch that he

1169
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:44,420
had made and I do have I have a scan of

1170
00:51:51,610 --> 00:51:49,010
that I again I apologize I'm I'm coming

1171
00:51:53,470 --> 00:51:51,620
into this a little rusty

1172
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:53,480
I don't have my I don't have visual aids

1173
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:55,730
ready but you know maybe there's a way

1174
00:51:59,800 --> 00:51:57,440
we can post this on your website or sure

1175
00:52:02,770 --> 00:51:59,810
actually I think I may have posted this

1176
00:52:05,050 --> 00:52:02,780
on my blog but I can't remember what I

1177
00:52:07,450 --> 00:52:05,060
can do is if there's something like this

1178
00:52:09,340 --> 00:52:07,460
comes up in conversation if you send me

1179
00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:09,350
that scan I'll just put it right in the

1180
00:52:14,430 --> 00:52:11,390
show notes for the lid okay great great

1181
00:52:19,210 --> 00:52:14,440
well so he did he drew a very detailed

1182
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:19,220
sketch of the object and and he and he

1183
00:52:23,110 --> 00:52:21,290
drew the figures in silhouette and they

1184
00:52:25,780 --> 00:52:23,120
look humanoid it's sort of like the

1185
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:25,790
upper half of their bodies may be from

1186
00:52:30,070 --> 00:52:27,920
about if I remember right from about

1187
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:30,080
waist up maybe and you can see sort of

1188
00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:31,250
the shapes of the shoulders and the

1189
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:33,860
shapes of heads so he didn't he didn't

1190
00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:36,170
see any features he didn't see any skin

1191
00:52:42,820 --> 00:52:39,470
or or clothing or anything he just saw

1192
00:52:45,820 --> 00:52:42,830
the silhouettes but he he did sense that

1193
00:52:47,230 --> 00:52:45,830
the heads were moving in time with the

1194
00:52:49,540 --> 00:52:47,240
motion of the craft so that they

1195
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:49,550
remained looking at him but I also when

1196
00:52:52,450 --> 00:52:50,810
he when he described that to me I

1197
00:52:54,370 --> 00:52:52,460
thought well gosh there were 50 other

1198
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:54,380
people seeing the same thing I wonder if

1199
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:57,410
it looked that way to all the other men

1200
00:53:02,140 --> 00:52:58,880
because you know all these men are

1201
00:53:04,330 --> 00:53:02,150
basically in a straight line and that's

1202
00:53:07,870 --> 00:53:04,340
running parallel to the trajectory of

1203
00:53:09,850 --> 00:53:07,880
this object in the sky so you know if we

1204
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:09,860
were able to ever able to get in touch

1205
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:11,450
with any of these other any of these

1206
00:53:13,940 --> 00:53:12,090
folks

1207
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:13,950
who were there that night it would be it

1208
00:53:19,850 --> 00:53:16,050
would be interesting to see or to hear

1209
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:19,860
how they perceived these beings inside

1210
00:53:24,530 --> 00:53:22,530
the craft I was looking through your

1211
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:24,540
blog a little bit and I saw that you

1212
00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:27,680
wrote on the what I call the a Tacoma

1213
00:53:37,540 --> 00:53:33,150
Greer's dr. Greer's baby yeah yeah and I

1214
00:53:40,340 --> 00:53:37,550
actually did a spoof on that when he was

1215
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:40,350
right before that movie came out so ah

1216
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:44,880
YouTube needs to be spewed so let's

1217
00:53:51,650 --> 00:53:48,090
let's let's touch on that a little bit

1218
00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:51,660
and not only that I did promise the

1219
00:53:58,520 --> 00:53:53,250
listener that I would not keep bringing

1220
00:54:02,750 --> 00:53:58,530
up the may 5th mummy but in your opinion

1221
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:02,760
what do you think I actually think the

1222
00:54:07,570 --> 00:54:05,130
mummy was worse for the UFO community

1223
00:54:12,860 --> 00:54:07,580
but I don't think it got a lot of

1224
00:54:16,850 --> 00:54:12,870
publicity this the movie serious there's

1225
00:54:19,460 --> 00:54:16,860
is Oliver Netflix and everything else so

1226
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:19,470
it's still you know like ongoing whereas

1227
00:54:25,130 --> 00:54:22,880
the mummy is kind of quiet right now but

1228
00:54:29,450 --> 00:54:25,140
but there are still people clinging on

1229
00:54:32,510 --> 00:54:29,460
to saying that this is what it it's

1230
00:54:34,550 --> 00:54:32,520
still a lien well you know supposedly

1231
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:34,560
there was going to be that film

1232
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:37,410
Kodachrome Brian's gonna come out any

1233
00:54:42,980 --> 00:54:40,410
time now telling that old story I

1234
00:54:45,620 --> 00:54:42,990
haven't seen hide nor hair of that and I

1235
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,630
kind of doubt that we will yeah that's

1236
00:54:48,980 --> 00:54:47,040
the best an interesting question and I

1237
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:48,990
remember now that I included that I one

1238
00:54:53,330 --> 00:54:51,450
of my one of my haha funny questions

1239
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:53,340
that I posted on my blog Atacama

1240
00:55:02,420 --> 00:54:58,290
humanoid or or the Roswell slide being I

1241
00:55:04,130 --> 00:55:02,430
think you know because because there was

1242
00:55:05,750 --> 00:55:04,140
a film associated with the atacama

1243
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:05,760
humanoid because it was so closely

1244
00:55:10,580 --> 00:55:08,310
associated with the Citizen hearing on

1245
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:10,590
disclosure you know that was all sort of

1246
00:55:17,150 --> 00:55:13,050
a big package deal the grier you know

1247
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:17,160
put together I think probably at the

1248
00:55:21,500 --> 00:55:19,110
time yeah I think that probably made

1249
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:21,510
more waves than then the mummy in the

1250
00:55:27,710 --> 00:55:24,720
roswell slide I think the Roswell slide

1251
00:55:30,170 --> 00:55:27,720
figure was maybe a little more insulated

1252
00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:30,180
in UFO world but since you asked since

1253
00:55:35,590 --> 00:55:31,380
you bring it up though it kind of makes

1254
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:35,600
me it makes makes me think about how

1255
00:55:39,830 --> 00:55:38,490
early in 2015 there was there was a

1256
00:55:41,390 --> 00:55:39,840
whole string in January in February

1257
00:55:44,570 --> 00:55:41,400
there's a whole string of news stories

1258
00:55:46,310 --> 00:55:44,580
about UFOs that really hit the big time

1259
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:46,320
I mean they were getting big time

1260
00:55:53,390 --> 00:55:48,000
coverage on The Today Show and

1261
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:53,400
CNN there was first of all there was the

1262
00:55:59,050 --> 00:55:56,880
see someone the CIA tweeted that you

1263
00:56:02,240 --> 00:55:59,060
know the vast majority of UFO sightings

1264
00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:02,250
in the u.s. in the 50s and 60s were

1265
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:04,380
because of their you to spy planes oh

1266
00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:07,050
yes right you know that vet that story

1267
00:56:12,860 --> 00:56:10,230
got a lot of play it's a it was a

1268
00:56:15,860 --> 00:56:12,870
bizarre thing for the CIA to be talking

1269
00:56:18,620 --> 00:56:15,870
about I still can't figure out why the

1270
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:18,630
why they sent out that blog but but

1271
00:56:24,350 --> 00:56:20,730
whatever it's got a lot of attention and

1272
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:24,360
then close on the heels of that was that

1273
00:56:28,820 --> 00:56:26,910
episode where the live video feed from

1274
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:28,830
the International Space Station was cut

1275
00:56:31,790 --> 00:56:29,010
off

1276
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:31,800
supposedly moments after a UFO appeared

1277
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:35,010
on screen mm-hmm that story got a whole

1278
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:36,810
lot of coverage and it was kind of funny

1279
00:56:41,150 --> 00:56:39,450
to see it seemed as though the news

1280
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:41,160
outlets that missed out on the first

1281
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:43,650
story all all just pounced on the next

1282
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:44,970
one because they didn't want to lose out

1283
00:56:49,820 --> 00:56:47,010
and then after that there was that story

1284
00:56:51,410 --> 00:56:49,830
with the black vault comm where the

1285
00:56:53,180 --> 00:56:51,420
gentleman who runs that web site you

1286
00:56:55,970 --> 00:56:53,190
know got all that attention for saying

1287
00:56:58,970 --> 00:56:55,980
hey I've just released all 130,000

1288
00:57:00,380 --> 00:56:58,980
pounds of Blue Book files for free when

1289
00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:00,390
in fact they'd all been available for

1290
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:02,880
free for a long long time already and

1291
00:57:09,230 --> 00:57:05,610
that story got immense amount of

1292
00:57:14,330 --> 00:57:09,240
publicity so a couple months later you

1293
00:57:17,660 --> 00:57:14,340
know the the the the event in Mexico

1294
00:57:20,570 --> 00:57:17,670
City with the Roswell slides I I have to

1295
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:20,580
wonder you know did were were members of

1296
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:22,170
the mainstream media feeling like they

1297
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:23,850
had been burned on those first three

1298
00:57:28,070 --> 00:57:25,770
stories and they just didn't didn't want

1299
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:28,080
to touch it I don't know maybe because

1300
00:57:32,690 --> 00:57:30,690
it took place in Mexico people just kind

1301
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:32,700
of ignored it I'm not sure I think

1302
00:57:37,860 --> 00:57:35,520
that's the consensus of a lot of people

1303
00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:37,870
is because it was in Mexico

1304
00:57:43,170 --> 00:57:40,870
and I am actually very thankful for that

1305
00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:43,180
because you know I just think that was

1306
00:57:48,750 --> 00:57:45,670
very damaging or it could have been a

1307
00:57:51,450 --> 00:57:48,760
lot worse you know if it got a great

1308
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:51,460
amount of coverage it would be a real

1309
00:57:59,010 --> 00:57:53,610
problem I think yeah

1310
00:58:01,260 --> 00:57:59,020
and you know I haven't spoken to don

1311
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:01,270
schmidt at all since that happened but

1312
00:58:07,350 --> 00:58:04,720
from what I understand and this may be

1313
00:58:10,170 --> 00:58:07,360
totally wrong I don't know but I think

1314
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:10,180
he's still standing with the fact that

1315
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:13,750
he thinks that it's an alien well since

1316
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:16,330
you bring up mr. Schmidt your listeners

1317
00:58:22,140 --> 00:58:19,450
will be the first to learn that as of

1318
00:58:24,210 --> 00:58:22,150
today I have been challenged by Dan

1319
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:24,220
schmidt to have a public debate on

1320
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:25,650
Roswell

1321
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:28,960
really yes it's kind of interesting it's

1322
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:32,050
just at the beginning of June I took

1323
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:34,090
part in the first ever Milwaukee

1324
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:36,010
paranormal conference in Milwaukee

1325
00:58:41,790 --> 00:58:38,650
Wisconsin had a great time the organizer

1326
00:58:45,260 --> 00:58:41,800
T crew loss is a writer who had to be

1327
00:58:49,170 --> 00:58:45,270
put on this hole he put on this whole

1328
00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:49,180
conference basically to celebrate the

1329
00:58:53,100 --> 00:58:51,790
publishing of his book which if I

1330
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:53,110
remember right it's over in the next

1331
00:58:56,310 --> 00:58:54,610
room I think it's called monster hunters

1332
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:56,320
where he basically did some

1333
00:59:00,990 --> 00:58:57,970
investigative reporting where he spent

1334
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:01,000
time he spent time out in the trenches

1335
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:03,490
with UFO investigators and Bigfoot

1336
00:59:10,410 --> 00:59:07,450
investigators and I think ghost hunters

1337
00:59:12,690 --> 00:59:10,420
and wrote a book about his adventures so

1338
00:59:15,780 --> 00:59:12,700
and he's a he's a Wisconsin writer so he

1339
00:59:18,900 --> 00:59:15,790
put together this conference and true to

1340
00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:18,910
his book he had people from all you know

1341
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:21,070
he had cryptozoologists he had Loch Ness

1342
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:23,230
monster people Bigfoot people zombie

1343
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:26,890
people it was a really entertaining it

1344
00:59:31,110 --> 00:59:29,440
was a really entertaining day and with a

1345
00:59:32,460 --> 00:59:31,120
lot of really fun people involved and

1346
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:32,470
ahead a little bit you know it had a

1347
00:59:36,500 --> 00:59:34,930
little bit of something for everyone but

1348
00:59:38,910 --> 00:59:36,510
I gave one of the talks in the UFO

1349
00:59:40,890 --> 00:59:38,920
series and then Don Schmidt gave a talk

1350
00:59:43,410 --> 00:59:40,900
he was kind of the keynote address at

1351
00:59:45,420 --> 00:59:43,420
the end of the evening and this was just

1352
00:59:46,980 --> 00:59:45,430
about a month after the Mexico City

1353
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:46,990
fiasco

1354
00:59:54,270 --> 00:59:51,610
so social myths talk was kind of um

1355
00:59:56,270 --> 00:59:54,280
he didn't make any outlandish claims but

1356
00:59:58,110 --> 00:59:56,280
he you know he just kind of sounded very

1357
01:00:00,450 --> 00:59:58,120
defensive and kind of angry about

1358
01:00:03,420 --> 01:00:00,460
everything that had happened and you

1359
01:00:06,990 --> 01:00:03,430
know probably has good reason to feel

1360
01:00:09,450 --> 01:00:07,000
that way but the so the organizer of

1361
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:09,460
this event he's already talked with me

1362
01:00:13,710 --> 01:00:10,690
about appearing at next year's event

1363
01:00:15,450 --> 01:00:13,720
which I'm I would will love to do but he

1364
01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:15,460
just emailed me this afternoon and he

1365
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:17,440
said hey Mark

1366
01:00:22,770 --> 01:00:19,450
I was talking with you know one of the

1367
01:00:24,660 --> 01:00:22,780
one of the people who had helped me to

1368
01:00:26,340 --> 01:00:24,670
put together the first conference we

1369
01:00:28,980 --> 01:00:26,350
were talking about ideas for next year's

1370
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:28,990
conference and we we thought it would be

1371
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:31,090
fun if we could get you and Don Schmitt

1372
01:00:36,990 --> 01:00:33,970
to agree to have a debate on stage and

1373
01:00:39,570 --> 01:00:37,000
he said all of a sudden today out of the

1374
01:00:41,730 --> 01:00:39,580
blue I get an email from Don Schmitt

1375
01:00:43,230 --> 01:00:41,740
saying hey I'll appear at your next

1376
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:43,240
conference if I can have a debate on

1377
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:45,970
stage with Mark O'Connell so I'm feeling

1378
01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:47,890
very flattered I've just risen up in the

1379
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:49,750
ranks now I'm gonna be I'm gonna be on

1380
01:00:55,170 --> 01:00:52,480
stage with Dan Schmidt so I wrote back

1381
01:00:57,210 --> 01:00:55,180
to T and I said yes I I am very

1382
01:00:59,580 --> 01:00:57,220
interested I didn't give him I didn't

1383
01:01:02,790 --> 01:00:59,590
give him a complete yes I will do it

1384
01:01:04,470 --> 01:01:02,800
because I need to know more about you

1385
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:04,480
know what the parameters of the debate

1386
01:01:10,260 --> 01:01:08,530
will be and how it will be held but you

1387
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:10,270
know assuming we can work out all the

1388
01:01:13,620 --> 01:01:11,650
details and everyone's in agreement on

1389
01:01:14,910 --> 01:01:13,630
how it'll how it'll happen I think it

1390
01:01:17,310 --> 01:01:14,920
would be a really I think it would be a

1391
01:01:19,410 --> 01:01:17,320
really fun and interesting event now so

1392
01:01:21,690 --> 01:01:19,420
what is your take on Roswell in general

1393
01:01:25,530 --> 01:01:21,700
besides let's just put the alien slide

1394
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:25,540
thing away for right now gladly yeah my

1395
01:01:29,940 --> 01:01:27,250
take on Roswell is that it's a very

1396
01:01:33,710 --> 01:01:29,950
entertaining story and it's possible

1397
01:01:37,890 --> 01:01:33,720
that something something very amazing

1398
01:01:39,660 --> 01:01:37,900
happened but nobody has ever been able

1399
01:01:42,270 --> 01:01:39,670
to prove anything and pretty much the

1400
01:01:46,620 --> 01:01:42,280
ticking clock has run out I think at the

1401
01:01:48,690 --> 01:01:46,630
same time if I would be hard-pressed to

1402
01:01:51,210 --> 01:01:48,700
prove that nothing happened in Roswell

1403
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:51,220
you know I don't think I don't think Don

1404
01:01:54,990 --> 01:01:52,720
Schmidt can prove that anything did

1405
01:01:57,060 --> 01:01:55,000
happen and I don't think I would be able

1406
01:01:59,100 --> 01:01:57,070
to prove that anything didn't happen so

1407
01:02:04,440 --> 01:01:59,110
if that was the debate it would be kind

1408
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:04,450
of boring and I still me um if I if if

1409
01:02:07,350 --> 01:02:05,410
if it was a

1410
01:02:08,940 --> 01:02:07,360
about who knows more of arras well Don

1411
01:02:11,250 --> 01:02:08,950
Schmidt would win hands down I mean

1412
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:11,260
that's all the guy does he knows all the

1413
01:02:17,370 --> 01:02:12,970
names and dates and places and you know

1414
01:02:21,330 --> 01:02:17,380
in incredible detail I do not you know

1415
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:21,340
I'm not a student of that case not any

1416
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:24,850
more than I need to be so so if so if

1417
01:02:28,050 --> 01:02:26,050
debate the debate was either one of

1418
01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:28,060
those two formats I would have some

1419
01:02:31,700 --> 01:02:29,710
problems with it so I think if we can

1420
01:02:34,050 --> 01:02:31,710
come up with some aspect of Roswell

1421
01:02:36,180 --> 01:02:34,060
where you know there it's clearly

1422
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:36,190
defined that you can either be pro or

1423
01:02:41,490 --> 01:02:38,770
con you know I think we can work

1424
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:41,500
something out but so but I'm giving you

1425
01:02:45,570 --> 01:02:43,510
a much longer answer than you asked for

1426
01:02:47,490 --> 01:02:45,580
no I think I think it's a really fun

1427
01:02:48,990 --> 01:02:47,500
story it's a really entertaining story

1428
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:49,000
but I don't know that it's anything more

1429
01:02:53,490 --> 01:02:51,610
than that because again nobody's proven

1430
01:02:54,930 --> 01:02:53,500
anything they've run all these smoking

1431
01:02:59,520 --> 01:02:54,940
guns over the years that have turned out

1432
01:03:01,320 --> 01:02:59,530
to be nothing I just don't to me there

1433
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:01,330
are a lot more interesting cases you

1434
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:03,130
know there's there's a the warrant

1435
01:03:06,210 --> 01:03:05,290
though the war in Minnesota case I think

1436
01:03:09,420 --> 01:03:06,220
I'm getting that right with the

1437
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:09,430
sheriff's deputy deputy who's whose

1438
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:12,970
squad car was essentially attacked by a

1439
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:15,280
UFO yeah and that police car is sitting

1440
01:03:19,530 --> 01:03:17,680
in a museum in northern Minnesota right

1441
01:03:21,740 --> 01:03:19,540
with its with its dented hood and

1442
01:03:24,330 --> 01:03:21,750
cracked windshield and burned-out lights

1443
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:24,340
that's that's physical evidence right

1444
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:26,530
there why isn't anybody paying any

1445
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:28,000
attention to that see for my money

1446
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:29,290
that's the case that should be

1447
01:03:36,750 --> 01:03:32,650
investigated and and yet it just sits

1448
01:03:38,460 --> 01:03:36,760
there getting completely ignored I don't

1449
01:03:40,110 --> 01:03:38,470
know it's it's a funny business it's

1450
01:03:42,030 --> 01:03:40,120
hard to explain things like that yeah

1451
01:03:43,710 --> 01:03:42,040
well we're at the top of the hour and

1452
01:03:46,970 --> 01:03:43,720
generally speaking we take a break here

1453
01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:46,980
but I'm gonna keep going and this show

1454
01:03:50,250 --> 01:03:48,880
generally it's second hour by

1455
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,260
subscription but this show is going to

1456
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:52,960
be free so to everyone so we're just

1457
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:54,400
going to move on we're on the line with

1458
01:04:00,540 --> 01:03:57,490
Mark O'Connell and if you want to call

1459
01:04:02,580 --> 01:04:00,550
in at six oh three nine six seven four

1460
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:02,590
o3o or if you want to ask a question you

1461
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:06,160
can jump in the chat room at podcast UFO

1462
01:04:09,990 --> 01:04:08,650
comm eight Martin can I ask you a

1463
01:04:11,370 --> 01:04:10,000
question yeah sure go ahead

1464
01:04:13,380 --> 01:04:11,380
I don't mean to derail the conversation

1465
01:04:15,210 --> 01:04:13,390
because I love everything we've been

1466
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:15,220
talking about but there's something that

1467
01:04:18,870 --> 01:04:18,130
I I want to ask this in my blog it's

1468
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:18,880
actually a

1469
01:04:23,420 --> 01:04:20,470
kind of already asked in my blog but I'd

1470
01:04:28,050 --> 01:04:23,430
love to ask you give your listeners to

1471
01:04:30,930 --> 01:04:28,060
my dad who turns 90 in November and has

1472
01:04:32,370 --> 01:04:30,940
been on six continents has always wanted

1473
01:04:34,050 --> 01:04:32,380
to get to the seventh continent

1474
01:04:36,540 --> 01:04:34,060
Antarctica and a couple weeks ago he

1475
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:36,550
surprised our entire family by

1476
01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:39,280
announcing that he is taking me and four

1477
01:04:44,790 --> 01:04:41,350
of my siblings to Antarctica this

1478
01:04:46,830 --> 01:04:44,800
December and it's gonna be an amazing

1479
01:04:48,810 --> 01:04:46,840
trip and I'm gonna see things in the sky

1480
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:48,820
that I've never seen before probably

1481
01:04:53,370 --> 01:04:50,770
never will again and I would love to

1482
01:04:55,140 --> 01:04:53,380
know if there are any you I mean of

1483
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:55,150
course we all know about the Hitler's

1484
01:04:59,720 --> 01:04:57,370
secret UFO base under the ice it's

1485
01:05:02,730 --> 01:04:59,730
Arctic ofcourse I'll work for that yeah

1486
01:05:06,450 --> 01:05:02,740
but but I want to know if there are any

1487
01:05:08,580 --> 01:05:06,460
other stories involve involving I mean

1488
01:05:10,380 --> 01:05:08,590
we'll be in Buenos Aires we will be in

1489
01:05:13,620 --> 01:05:10,390
Tierra del Fuego

1490
01:05:15,660 --> 01:05:13,630
if anybody knows of stories attached to

1491
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:15,670
those places and to Antarctica I would

1492
01:05:19,530 --> 01:05:17,290
love to hear them because I'd love to

1493
01:05:21,630 --> 01:05:19,540
know more about what kinds of things are

1494
01:05:23,850 --> 01:05:21,640
seen in that part of the world uh-huh

1495
01:05:26,630 --> 01:05:23,860
wow that's that's really something your

1496
01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:26,640
father at 90 years old that's a media

1497
01:05:35,310 --> 01:05:30,100
for him he's quite a guy yeah he must be

1498
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:35,320
must be well moving on about Roswell the

1499
01:05:41,490 --> 01:05:38,050
one thing that in that case in

1500
01:05:44,190 --> 01:05:41,500
particular that it's I don't think it's

1501
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:44,200
a case that's going to die away at any

1502
01:05:49,860 --> 01:05:46,960
anytime soon anyway and you know a lot

1503
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:49,870
of times myth does become reality

1504
01:05:56,070 --> 01:05:52,690
there's a lot of times where you'll see

1505
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:56,080
like a UFO show and it'll talk about

1506
01:06:01,620 --> 01:05:58,090
something that you know that's was a

1507
01:06:03,540 --> 01:06:01,630
myth and that they make it seem like it

1508
01:06:05,580 --> 01:06:03,550
really did happen that type of thing but

1509
01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:05,590
the one thing that always puzzles me

1510
01:06:12,690 --> 01:06:09,910
about Roswell the most is why on earth

1511
01:06:16,170 --> 01:06:12,700
would the Army Air Force say they

1512
01:06:18,810 --> 01:06:16,180
captured a disc I just can't understand

1513
01:06:22,470 --> 01:06:18,820
any way that they could get that wrong

1514
01:06:27,350 --> 01:06:22,480
before they publicized it and so that

1515
01:06:31,890 --> 01:06:27,360
that alone makes that case I think

1516
01:06:32,849 --> 01:06:31,900
really important and something I agreed

1517
01:06:34,289 --> 01:06:32,859
there are a lot of

1518
01:06:36,779 --> 01:06:34,299
really fascinating questions around it

1519
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:36,789
some of the questions I have are I like

1520
01:06:43,380 --> 01:06:40,410
to look at the totality of the UFO

1521
01:06:45,410 --> 01:06:43,390
phenomena and experience and look at

1522
01:06:47,999 --> 01:06:45,420
what are some of the other things that

1523
01:06:50,729 --> 01:06:48,009
UFO witnesses have experienced people

1524
01:06:56,999 --> 01:06:50,739
have experienced missing time people

1525
01:07:00,059 --> 01:06:57,009
have experienced apparitions that seem

1526
01:07:01,859 --> 01:07:00,069
to appear from other dimensions that

1527
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:01,869
sort of appear and disappear at will in

1528
01:07:07,620 --> 01:07:05,650
our in our dimensions and any and if and

1529
01:07:10,229 --> 01:07:07,630
if we consider all of those things as

1530
01:07:12,779 --> 01:07:10,239
things that could apply to any UFO

1531
01:07:16,109 --> 01:07:12,789
sighting anywhere then I always have to

1532
01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:16,119
look at Roswell in terms of well even if

1533
01:07:21,150 --> 01:07:18,190
they're dumb enough to fly halfway

1534
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:21,160
across the universe or transfer from

1535
01:07:26,700 --> 01:07:24,160
another dimension and still not be able

1536
01:07:29,089 --> 01:07:26,710
to nail the landing even if they're that

1537
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,099
dumb which I have a hard time believing

1538
01:07:35,700 --> 01:07:32,160
why wouldn't they have a cleanup crew

1539
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:35,710
show up immediately and sweep up the

1540
01:07:40,559 --> 01:07:38,049
debris so that Mac Brazel didn't have

1541
01:07:43,170 --> 01:07:40,569
anything to find that to me is just

1542
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:43,180
defies all belief why would there be any

1543
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:45,730
wreckage there at all or why wouldn't

1544
01:07:49,799 --> 01:07:47,920
they manipulate late time so that the

1545
01:07:51,870 --> 01:07:49,809
crash never happened I mean if you

1546
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:51,880
really want to start applying things

1547
01:07:56,519 --> 01:07:53,890
that that people have reported in other

1548
01:07:58,470 --> 01:07:56,529
UFO cases then suddenly you've got a

1549
01:08:01,200 --> 01:07:58,480
million different ways for how that

1550
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:01,210
Roswell story could have gone and you

1551
01:08:06,660 --> 01:08:03,039
have to ask why didn't it go any of

1552
01:08:08,489 --> 01:08:06,670
those ways why instead are we supposed

1553
01:08:11,599 --> 01:08:08,499
to believe that it actually unfolded in

1554
01:08:14,759 --> 01:08:11,609
this really kind of pedestrian way

1555
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:14,769
dictated by our laws of logic and

1556
01:08:20,370 --> 01:08:18,730
reality when every other case kind of

1557
01:08:21,599 --> 01:08:20,380
kind of you know plays out in a

1558
01:08:23,220 --> 01:08:21,609
completely different way

1559
01:08:26,490 --> 01:08:23,230
that's kind of the big issue I have with

1560
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:26,500
Roswell I understand part of that a good

1561
01:08:32,249 --> 01:08:29,440
part of that and well one thing I have

1562
01:08:36,990 --> 01:08:32,259
to say about the crashing part of it and

1563
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:37,000
is that no matter where like to say if

1564
01:08:42,629 --> 01:08:40,480
we were traveling space if we ever can

1565
01:08:45,809 --> 01:08:42,639
get that advanced without blowing

1566
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:45,819
everyone up and we're traveling space

1567
01:08:51,050 --> 01:08:46,690
well

1568
01:08:56,370 --> 01:08:51,060
if we come into a relatively primitive

1569
01:08:58,470 --> 01:08:56,380
society primitive technology perhaps you

1570
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:58,480
know people have speculated maybe they

1571
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:00,640
weren't ready for radar bouncing off of

1572
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:03,250
their electromagnetic propulsion or

1573
01:09:07,460 --> 01:09:05,530
whatever it was that could have possibly

1574
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:07,470
made them crash maybe there are things

1575
01:09:13,980 --> 01:09:10,960
radio waves or just something that they

1576
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:13,990
wouldn't expect and have a natural

1577
01:09:19,230 --> 01:09:16,210
defense against or something like that I

1578
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:19,240
mean the whole thing is the more you

1579
01:09:23,580 --> 01:09:20,770
look into it the more of a mystery it

1580
01:09:25,050 --> 01:09:23,590
all becomes and it's all speculation and

1581
01:09:28,260 --> 01:09:25,060
that's kind of why I like doing the show

1582
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:28,270
it's a lot of ideas and speculation

1583
01:09:33,750 --> 01:09:30,730
getting to hear from other people like

1584
01:09:37,380 --> 01:09:33,760
yourself and what their ideas are are on

1585
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:37,390
the whole thing so go ahead right I was

1586
01:09:42,150 --> 01:09:39,130
just gonna say I have a tagline on my

1587
01:09:46,620 --> 01:09:42,160
blog that says ambiguity is more

1588
01:09:48,930 --> 01:09:46,630
convincing than certainty and I I really

1589
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:48,940
when it comes to UFOs I really truly

1590
01:09:53,790 --> 01:09:52,000
believe that ambiguity makes it more

1591
01:09:55,230 --> 01:09:53,800
believable to me I don't really know how

1592
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:55,240
to explain that because it's

1593
01:09:59,130 --> 01:09:57,520
counterintuitive but it sounds as though

1594
01:10:03,150 --> 01:09:59,140
you you kind of feel the same way on a

1595
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:03,160
certain level have you ever looked so

1596
01:10:07,410 --> 01:10:04,960
the one thing that someone just brought

1597
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:07,420
it up on the message board that is

1598
01:10:13,530 --> 01:10:10,690
interesting is also the memo that is

1599
01:10:15,090 --> 01:10:13,540
being held and trying to remember who

1600
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:15,100
was holding it in their hand when they

1601
01:10:22,860 --> 01:10:18,000
were handling the debris no I marsala

1602
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:22,870
Jesse Marcel was holding a memo yeah

1603
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:24,910
that was they've been trying to clear up

1604
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:28,450
you know through filters and through

1605
01:10:32,010 --> 01:10:29,890
technology trying to clear up what the

1606
01:10:34,230 --> 01:10:32,020
memo was actually saying have you looked

1607
01:10:36,210 --> 01:10:34,240
into that at all that's interesting I've

1608
01:10:40,020 --> 01:10:36,220
only looked into it a little bit and I

1609
01:10:42,860 --> 01:10:40,030
in and only in so far as I thought it

1610
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:42,870
was a bit strange that the same people

1611
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:46,810
who were saying that enhancing the

1612
01:10:52,410 --> 01:10:49,840
placard in the Roswell slides was kind

1613
01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:52,420
of a dirty trick and couldn't be trusted

1614
01:10:56,580 --> 01:10:54,880
those very same people seemed to be

1615
01:11:00,480 --> 01:10:56,590
turning around and saying yeah that memo

1616
01:11:02,730 --> 01:11:00,490
held by you know held

1617
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:02,740
held bike was it the Ramey memo that's

1618
01:11:05,550 --> 01:11:03,730
what we're talking about right yeah

1619
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:05,560
mm-hmm these are the same people who are

1620
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:07,210
saying well well we've digitally

1621
01:11:12,330 --> 01:11:08,530
enhanced that memo and we can read

1622
01:11:14,820 --> 01:11:12,340
exactly what it says no you can't have

1623
01:11:16,620 --> 01:11:14,830
it both ways if you can digitally

1624
01:11:18,330 --> 01:11:16,630
enhance one to see what it really says

1625
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:18,340
then you can digitally enhance the other

1626
01:11:22,290 --> 01:11:20,530
and likewise if you can't digitally

1627
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:22,300
enhance one then you probably can't

1628
01:11:26,580 --> 01:11:24,370
digitally because the other so my my

1629
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:26,590
only contact with the Ramey memo just

1630
01:11:30,810 --> 01:11:29,170
comes from that kind of that bet

1631
01:11:33,390 --> 01:11:30,820
annoyance with me that of course I wrote

1632
01:11:35,190 --> 01:11:33,400
about in my vlog I just thought and the

1633
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:35,200
words that apparently can be read on the

1634
01:11:38,850 --> 01:11:37,510
Ramey memo don't really mean a whole lot

1635
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:38,860
as I recall

1636
01:11:44,340 --> 01:11:41,280
so I don't put a whole lot of document

1637
01:11:46,770 --> 01:11:44,350
it seems like they should be able to

1638
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:46,780
even enhance it as we go along you know

1639
01:11:51,300 --> 01:11:49,840
wait everything always gets better and

1640
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:51,310
better maybe eventually they'll be able

1641
01:11:56,820 --> 01:11:54,210
to get the full text out of that I

1642
01:11:58,200 --> 01:11:56,830
wanted to I wanted to mention something

1643
01:12:01,530 --> 01:11:58,210
that you were just talking about though

1644
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:01,540
about um about how these storylines get

1645
01:12:07,590 --> 01:12:06,250
reinforced in in in popular culture I've

1646
01:12:10,010 --> 01:12:07,600
been thinking a lot about that lately

1647
01:12:13,230 --> 01:12:10,020
because my wife and I had been watching

1648
01:12:14,850 --> 01:12:13,240
the x-files all the way through were at

1649
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:14,860
the beginning of season 3 not neither

1650
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:16,960
one of us ever watched it in the 90s I

1651
01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:18,610
don't even know why I don't even know I

1652
01:12:23,070 --> 01:12:20,110
don't have an excuse I was a sci-fi

1653
01:12:25,290 --> 01:12:23,080
fiend I have no idea why I didn't watch

1654
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:25,300
that show but I didn't so now we're

1655
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:27,730
watching it and you know starting a

1656
01:12:32,340 --> 01:12:29,770
season 3 we're really starting to get

1657
01:12:35,610 --> 01:12:32,350
into the whole alien the whole

1658
01:12:39,570 --> 01:12:35,620
disclosure conspiracy storyline and it's

1659
01:12:41,310 --> 01:12:39,580
a it's it's it's silly in a lot of ways

1660
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:41,320
but it's also a lot of fun it's good

1661
01:12:46,740 --> 01:12:44,050
entertainment but I've really been

1662
01:12:54,420 --> 01:12:46,750
enjoying the way the writers of the

1663
01:12:57,090 --> 01:12:54,430
x-files kind of kind of used those

1664
01:13:00,450 --> 01:12:57,100
storylines like the Roswell narrative

1665
01:13:02,970 --> 01:13:00,460
kind of used them to their own ends to

1666
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:02,980
create their own mythology but at the

1667
01:13:07,220 --> 01:13:04,810
same time kind of validated the

1668
01:13:10,980 --> 01:13:07,230
mythology surrounding the original story

1669
01:13:12,510 --> 01:13:10,990
you know when when Mulder says something

1670
01:13:13,649 --> 01:13:12,520
about Roswell in an episode of the

1671
01:13:16,350 --> 01:13:13,659
x-files

1672
01:13:19,020 --> 01:13:16,360
you know 25 or 30 million people are

1673
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:19,030
watching that and how many of those

1674
01:13:23,969 --> 01:13:21,610
people are saying AHA Mulder believes it

1675
01:13:25,919 --> 01:13:23,979
it must be true you know and so you got

1676
01:13:27,839 --> 01:13:25,929
this sort of circular reinforcement of

1677
01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:27,849
the mythology while creating new

1678
01:13:32,549 --> 01:13:31,209
mythology is if I if I was a social

1679
01:13:34,020 --> 01:13:32,559
scientist that would be digging into

1680
01:13:37,109 --> 01:13:34,030
this like crazy I think it's really

1681
01:13:39,469 --> 01:13:37,119
fascinating and there's a really funny

1682
01:13:44,429 --> 01:13:39,479
line in one of the season 1 episodes

1683
01:13:45,989 --> 01:13:44,439
with deep throat and Mulder they're

1684
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:45,999
talking about something to do with an

1685
01:13:50,939 --> 01:13:48,489
alien crash and Mulder says Roswell and

1686
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:50,949
deep throat just kind of gives him this

1687
01:13:58,199 --> 01:13:54,880
really kind of dismissive look and he

1688
01:14:00,359 --> 01:13:58,209
says he's like oh forget Roswell Roswell

1689
01:14:02,969 --> 01:14:00,369
smoke and mirrors he goes we have we

1690
01:14:06,770 --> 01:14:02,979
have many many better crash sites than

1691
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:06,780
Roswell that line just cracked me up

1692
01:14:11,909 --> 01:14:10,449
because I you know it's probably there's

1693
01:14:13,770 --> 01:14:11,919
probably an element of truth in that

1694
01:14:18,859 --> 01:14:13,780
even though this is written as a line in

1695
01:14:20,669 --> 01:14:18,869
a TV show right right let's talk about

1696
01:14:24,359 --> 01:14:20,679
disclosure what do you think about

1697
01:14:27,089 --> 01:14:24,369
disclosure I've said this before on my

1698
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:27,099
blog it seems to me that if disclosure

1699
01:14:30,870 --> 01:14:29,050
was really a thing then it's up to the

1700
01:14:32,370 --> 01:14:30,880
aliens to decide the aliens can show

1701
01:14:34,830 --> 01:14:32,380
themselves to us anytime they want

1702
01:14:37,469 --> 01:14:34,840
they're not gonna wait for a decision by

1703
01:14:39,989 --> 01:14:37,479
any earthly government that just makes

1704
01:14:42,839 --> 01:14:39,999
no sense to me and I actually I went to

1705
01:14:44,459 --> 01:14:42,849
a talk by Richard Dolan a couple years

1706
01:14:46,020 --> 01:14:44,469
ago at a MUFON meeting and I asked him

1707
01:14:47,459 --> 01:14:46,030
that I just said isn't it up to the

1708
01:14:48,839 --> 01:14:47,469
aliens and he just looked at me and he

1709
01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:48,849
said well they haven't done it yet have

1710
01:14:53,850 --> 01:14:51,760
they so apparently it's not and then I

1711
01:14:55,620 --> 01:14:53,860
thought well that's that's not very

1712
01:14:58,049 --> 01:14:55,630
sound logic just because they haven't

1713
01:15:01,379 --> 01:14:58,059
yet doesn't mean they can't it just

1714
01:15:03,540 --> 01:15:01,389
means they haven't yet so no I'm not a

1715
01:15:08,359 --> 01:15:03,550
big fan of disclosure I think it's I

1716
01:15:11,609 --> 01:15:08,369
think it's like I said the aliens

1717
01:15:13,319 --> 01:15:11,619
assuming the aliens exist they hope they

1718
01:15:14,699 --> 01:15:13,329
hold all the cards here why would it be

1719
01:15:17,129 --> 01:15:14,709
up to world governments who are

1720
01:15:18,569 --> 01:15:17,139
essentially powerless against them the

1721
01:15:19,790 --> 01:15:18,579
aliens can do whatever they want

1722
01:15:24,389 --> 01:15:19,800
whenever they want

1723
01:15:28,430 --> 01:15:24,399
so yeah it's in their hands oh yeah I

1724
01:15:31,710 --> 01:15:28,440
agree with you on that I think that

1725
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:31,720
if they wanted to show themselves they

1726
01:15:36,930 --> 01:15:34,480
could definitely do that and you know

1727
01:15:39,180 --> 01:15:36,940
and then but there may be many reasons

1728
01:15:43,740 --> 01:15:39,190
why they don't you know maybe they don't

1729
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:43,750
want to interfere with the social growth

1730
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:48,010
of our society being left alone or who

1731
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:52,330
knows what and you know one thing I

1732
01:15:57,930 --> 01:15:54,130
bring up all the time who knows what

1733
01:16:00,090 --> 01:15:57,940
they are anyway you know a lot of people

1734
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:00,100
are seeing something definitely that

1735
01:16:04,170 --> 01:16:02,410
can't be explained

1736
01:16:08,220 --> 01:16:04,180
you know people throughout numbers like

1737
01:16:09,630 --> 01:16:08,230
5% of UFOs are unexplainable or whatever

1738
01:16:12,750 --> 01:16:09,640
it is you know somewhere around there

1739
01:16:15,900 --> 01:16:12,760
but the fact of if it was just one you

1740
01:16:18,990 --> 01:16:15,910
know to me means that you know we are

1741
01:16:23,370 --> 01:16:19,000
being visited by something unexplainable

1742
01:16:25,950 --> 01:16:23,380
and we may never even know what it is

1743
01:16:29,310 --> 01:16:25,960
and we may have a total wrong idea about

1744
01:16:32,070 --> 01:16:29,320
what it is yeah and I agree completely

1745
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:32,080
and I personally am completely

1746
01:16:35,730 --> 01:16:34,330
comfortable with that you know that and

1747
01:16:37,890 --> 01:16:35,740
again it goes back to my little

1748
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:37,900
catchphrase of ambiguities more

1749
01:16:42,570 --> 01:16:39,850
convincing than certainty I don't have

1750
01:16:44,730 --> 01:16:42,580
to know what it is and and and some of

1751
01:16:47,790 --> 01:16:44,740
that belief has been reinforced by the

1752
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:47,800
work I've done researching the work of

1753
01:16:53,340 --> 01:16:50,170
dr. J Allen Hynek for the biography I'm

1754
01:16:55,590 --> 01:16:53,350
writing of him I want to talk about that

1755
01:16:57,630 --> 01:16:55,600
but before we do I just want to I want

1756
01:17:00,810 --> 01:16:57,640
to get this question out because this

1757
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:00,820
gentleman asked a while back what real

1758
01:17:07,020 --> 01:17:04,690
life UFO based mythology have you used

1759
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:07,030
for inspiration in your own writings for

1760
01:17:10,890 --> 01:17:10,210
TV etc oh that's a that's a great

1761
01:17:17,580 --> 01:17:10,900
question

1762
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:17,590
I have I have an unsold script I never

1763
01:17:22,470 --> 01:17:20,010
actually wrote the full script but but

1764
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:22,480
wrote a very detailed story treatment

1765
01:17:28,290 --> 01:17:24,250
and this is probably about yeah I'm

1766
01:17:32,730 --> 01:17:28,300
gonna say 10 or 12 years ago that

1767
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:32,740
actually had a lot to do with area 51

1768
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:36,010
and the idea that the United States

1769
01:17:41,220 --> 01:17:38,770
government is keeping captured alien

1770
01:17:44,010 --> 01:17:41,230
spaceships under

1771
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:44,020
said area 51 so you know old story it's

1772
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:45,970
it's been used a million times and it

1773
01:17:51,590 --> 01:17:47,650
will be used a million times before

1774
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:51,600
this actually came about because I was I

1775
01:17:58,260 --> 01:17:55,690
had been approached by a comic book

1776
01:18:00,270 --> 01:17:58,270
company that had a they were looking at

1777
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:00,280
titles in their comics library to

1778
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:02,530
develop his feature films and one of

1779
01:18:09,540 --> 01:18:06,970
their comic titles had to do with an

1780
01:18:11,310 --> 01:18:09,550
alien flying saucer at area 51 and

1781
01:18:13,860 --> 01:18:11,320
somebody who actually steals the flying

1782
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:13,870
saucer and gets away with it so I can't

1783
01:18:17,970 --> 01:18:15,520
even say it was an original story but

1784
01:18:19,890 --> 01:18:17,980
that was the comic book that they wanted

1785
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:19,900
meets the development as I said I wrote

1786
01:18:27,270 --> 01:18:24,610
a very very detailed story treatment I'm

1787
01:18:29,729 --> 01:18:27,280
I'm gonna guess it was probably close to

1788
01:18:33,030 --> 01:18:29,739
20 pages which for a story is that's a

1789
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:33,040
lot of work the comic book company never

1790
01:18:36,270 --> 01:18:34,570
went ahead with it and because it was

1791
01:18:38,820 --> 01:18:36,280
based on their property it wasn't

1792
01:18:40,410 --> 01:18:38,830
something that I could go shop around to

1793
01:18:42,030 --> 01:18:40,420
anyone else so unfortunately when they

1794
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:42,040
decided not to move ahead with the

1795
01:18:46,710 --> 01:18:44,650
project that was the end of it but

1796
01:18:48,510 --> 01:18:46,720
having said that though there are still

1797
01:18:50,430 --> 01:18:48,520
little bits and pieces of it that were

1798
01:18:53,670 --> 01:18:50,440
my original work that I added to their

1799
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:53,680
story that of course I still have you

1800
01:18:58,950 --> 01:18:56,890
know on file in my file cabinet and

1801
01:19:00,600 --> 01:18:58,960
kicking around in my brain and it's

1802
01:19:02,820 --> 01:19:00,610
always possible that some little bit of

1803
01:19:04,950 --> 01:19:02,830
that material could still work its way

1804
01:19:05,940 --> 01:19:04,960
into something you just never know

1805
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:05,950
uh-huh

1806
01:19:09,810 --> 01:19:08,290
and okay so let's move back in to what

1807
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:09,820
you were just talking about before I

1808
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:12,730
pose that question you are writing a

1809
01:19:22,710 --> 01:19:19,050
biography on J Allen Hynek yeah and what

1810
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:22,720
can you tell us about it and sure what

1811
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:24,850
got you started I'm always happy to talk

1812
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:27,730
about it it's it's it's the biggest

1813
01:19:32,700 --> 01:19:30,130
writing project I've ever done and the

1814
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:32,710
most difficult by far but also I think

1815
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:36,010
the most rewarding if this all goes back

1816
01:19:44,700 --> 01:19:37,810
to again four years ago when I started

1817
01:19:46,470 --> 01:19:44,710
writing my blog high strangeness my wife

1818
01:19:49,140 --> 01:19:46,480
at the time was working in Chicago so we

1819
01:19:51,090 --> 01:19:49,150
spent a lot of time in Chicago not just

1820
01:19:54,750 --> 01:19:51,100
we you know sort of splitting our time

1821
01:19:56,190 --> 01:19:54,760
between southern Wisconsin in Chicago so

1822
01:19:57,750 --> 01:19:56,200
again when I was sort of fishing around

1823
01:20:00,710 --> 01:19:57,760
for material to write about in the blog

1824
01:20:03,570 --> 01:20:00,720
I also came across the website for

1825
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:03,580
Koufos the J Allen Hynek Center for UFO

1826
01:20:08,729 --> 01:20:05,770
studies and it was very intrigued to

1827
01:20:11,310 --> 01:20:08,739
find that the center was literally

1828
01:20:13,350 --> 01:20:11,320
within five miles of our apartment in

1829
01:20:15,870 --> 01:20:13,360
Chicago I got very excited about that

1830
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:15,880
and contacted their scientific director

1831
01:20:22,410 --> 01:20:19,690
dr. mark rota ger and by the time he and

1832
01:20:24,210 --> 01:20:22,420
I talked the the info on the website was

1833
01:20:28,979 --> 01:20:24,220
actually obsolete they had they had

1834
01:20:30,990 --> 01:20:28,989
closed down their office and had

1835
01:20:32,670 --> 01:20:31,000
actually moved essentially moved what

1836
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:32,680
was left of the center's records and

1837
01:20:37,410 --> 01:20:35,050
resources into a couple members

1838
01:20:38,970 --> 01:20:37,420
basements throughout Chicago so dr. Rowe

1839
01:20:42,300 --> 01:20:38,980
tagger mark ruddiger had a whole lot of

1840
01:20:43,979 --> 01:20:42,310
the archives in his basement and he said

1841
01:20:47,070 --> 01:20:43,989
well you know the offices don't exist

1842
01:20:48,300 --> 01:20:47,080
anymore but you you know you'd be more

1843
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:48,310
than welcome to come over to my house

1844
01:20:51,660 --> 01:20:49,810
and you know poke around in the basement

1845
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:51,670
you know see if anything there catches

1846
01:20:57,300 --> 01:20:54,010
your interest so I was thrilled to get

1847
01:21:01,740 --> 01:20:57,310
that invitation had always been

1848
01:21:03,810 --> 01:21:01,750
interested in Hynek and his work but had

1849
01:21:08,340 --> 01:21:03,820
never really you know only really knew

1850
01:21:12,150 --> 01:21:08,350
what I had read in books and so when I

1851
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:12,160
started visiting Koufos just again just

1852
01:21:16,260 --> 01:21:14,290
looking for material fun stories to

1853
01:21:17,850 --> 01:21:16,270
write about in my blog I got to know

1854
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:17,860
mark a little and after a couple visits

1855
01:21:23,100 --> 01:21:19,570
he mentioned that they had always been

1856
01:21:26,370 --> 01:21:23,110
interested in finding a writer to write

1857
01:21:27,870 --> 01:21:26,380
the definitive definitive account of dr.

1858
01:21:29,870 --> 01:21:27,880
hynix career and I just said well I

1859
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:29,880
would love to do that I just you know I

1860
01:21:35,010 --> 01:21:32,650
just jumped on it I said I would I would

1861
01:21:37,770 --> 01:21:35,020
love to be that writer and he said well

1862
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:37,780
you know why don't you give it a try so

1863
01:21:45,390 --> 01:21:40,570
I started I started working right then

1864
01:21:49,860 --> 01:21:45,400
and there and Mark read a lot of my

1865
01:21:53,310 --> 01:21:49,870
initial drafts of chapters and and has

1866
01:21:55,290 --> 01:21:53,320
been has been happy with the direction

1867
01:21:59,850 --> 01:21:55,300
the book is going and has also been an

1868
01:22:02,520 --> 01:21:59,860
incredible resource for me as a as you

1869
01:22:04,650 --> 01:22:02,530
know just a fact checker you know he

1870
01:22:06,660 --> 01:22:04,660
clears up things that I don't get quite

1871
01:22:09,930 --> 01:22:06,670
right he points me in directions to do

1872
01:22:11,850 --> 01:22:09,940
you know new research on things so the

1873
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:11,860
research has been really fascinating and

1874
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:13,450
it's been helped by the fact that so not

1875
01:22:21,750 --> 01:22:19,570
on not only our Hynix Koufos files in

1876
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:21,760
the Chicago area in in these people's

1877
01:22:27,060 --> 01:22:25,330
basements but behind it Hynek was also

1878
01:22:29,820 --> 01:22:27,070
the chairman of the astronomy department

1879
01:22:32,700 --> 01:22:29,830
at Northwestern University from 1960

1880
01:22:35,610 --> 01:22:32,710
until his retirement in the early 80s so

1881
01:22:37,370 --> 01:22:35,620
there is a wealth of material in the

1882
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:37,380
Northwestern University Archives

1883
01:22:43,530 --> 01:22:41,530
Hynek also went to school he was born

1884
01:22:45,750 --> 01:22:43,540
and raised in Chicago and went to school

1885
01:22:48,209 --> 01:22:45,760
at the University of Chicago there is a

1886
01:22:51,060 --> 01:22:48,219
wealth of archival material in the

1887
01:22:53,340 --> 01:22:51,070
University of Chicago archives so and

1888
01:22:56,490 --> 01:22:53,350
and he did his graduate work at Yerkes

1889
01:22:58,800 --> 01:22:56,500
Observatory in southern Wisconsin about

1890
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:58,810
a half an hour from where I live so it

1891
01:23:03,900 --> 01:23:00,400
just turned out that all of these

1892
01:23:06,930 --> 01:23:03,910
resources dealing with hynek's career

1893
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:06,940
were really at my fingertips and I just

1894
01:23:11,130 --> 01:23:08,560
went nuts with the research so I've just

1895
01:23:14,130 --> 01:23:11,140
been I've been researching and writing

1896
01:23:16,620 --> 01:23:14,140
for a while I the big news is that just

1897
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:16,630
about three weeks ago I signed with a

1898
01:23:21,690 --> 01:23:20,050
literary agent who is now going to start

1899
01:23:26,850 --> 01:23:21,700
shopping the book project around to

1900
01:23:29,580 --> 01:23:26,860
publishers and we where we want to pitch

1901
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:29,590
this book as not just a UFO book we want

1902
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:32,530
we want to sell it to a publisher as a

1903
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:36,850
book that also is that also can appeal

1904
01:23:40,860 --> 01:23:39,010
to a mainstream audience and if you look

1905
01:23:43,590 --> 01:23:40,870
at the kind of audience that the x-files

1906
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:43,600
brings in and the kind of audiences that

1907
01:23:47,940 --> 01:23:45,520
shows like hangar 1 and ancient aliens

1908
01:23:50,100 --> 01:23:47,950
bring in it's not too big of a stretch

1909
01:23:52,950 --> 01:23:50,110
to say that you know this isn't just a

1910
01:23:56,250 --> 01:23:52,960
niche market this is a topic that is of

1911
01:23:58,650 --> 01:23:56,260
interest to a whole lot of people and

1912
01:24:00,360 --> 01:23:58,660
there is a there is a huge audience so

1913
01:24:03,060 --> 01:24:00,370
we think we'll we think we can be

1914
01:24:05,010 --> 01:24:03,070
successful in pitching this too you know

1915
01:24:08,490 --> 01:24:05,020
to a big publisher and you know

1916
01:24:11,700 --> 01:24:08,500
hopefully making it a big book well you

1917
01:24:14,130 --> 01:24:11,710
know he was such a fascinating man you

1918
01:24:16,410 --> 01:24:14,140
know if you really think about his

1919
01:24:20,810 --> 01:24:16,420
involvement with Project Blue Book and

1920
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:20,820
how he was out there to try to debunk

1921
01:24:26,660 --> 01:24:22,800
you know everything swamped his swamp

1922
01:24:30,290 --> 01:24:26,670
gas talk and and all that and then you

1923
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:30,300
know he comes over to the UFO side you

1924
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:32,880
know after which I think is is really

1925
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:36,810
amazing and you know that he spent the

1926
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:41,130
the last part of his life of just saying

1927
01:24:44,750 --> 01:24:43,050
hey you know something is going on and

1928
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:44,760
you know really curious about the

1929
01:24:50,569 --> 01:24:48,090
subject it is it's a great story he's he

1930
01:24:51,950 --> 01:24:50,579
was a complicated man I've learned so

1931
01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:51,960
much since I've done this research

1932
01:24:57,169 --> 01:24:54,480
because as I mentioned before what

1933
01:25:00,680 --> 01:24:57,179
little I knew of Hynek was just stuff I

1934
01:25:02,390 --> 01:25:00,690
had read in UFO books and let's let's be

1935
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:02,400
honest some of those UFO books are

1936
01:25:07,729 --> 01:25:05,730
biased some of them simply repeat

1937
01:25:11,359 --> 01:25:07,739
information that's already been you know

1938
01:25:14,450 --> 01:25:11,369
that's already been written in other

1939
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:14,460
formats and other other media so you

1940
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:17,489
know the end result is over time you

1941
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:19,170
know the sort of the same stories get

1942
01:25:23,149 --> 01:25:21,210
told and retold and repeated and and

1943
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:23,159
those stories aren't aren't always

1944
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:26,400
accurate but they sort of become sort of

1945
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:28,530
the conventional wisdom of who this guy

1946
01:25:32,569 --> 01:25:31,050
was and what his work represented so

1947
01:25:35,300 --> 01:25:32,579
it's been a huge surprise to me and

1948
01:25:37,250 --> 01:25:35,310
really a huge adventure to find out that

1949
01:25:39,290 --> 01:25:37,260
his work is you know it's it's a much

1950
01:25:40,669 --> 01:25:39,300
more complicated story than I then I

1951
01:25:43,189 --> 01:25:40,679
would have imagined you know there's

1952
01:25:45,379 --> 01:25:43,199
there's a lot of gray area he made a lot

1953
01:25:48,500 --> 01:25:45,389
of mistakes he did things he regretted

1954
01:25:50,209 --> 01:25:48,510
um you know he he should have changed

1955
01:25:51,979 --> 01:25:50,219
his mind sooner but he actually did

1956
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:51,989
start changing his mind a lot sooner

1957
01:25:55,399 --> 01:25:53,010
than most people think

1958
01:25:57,169 --> 01:25:55,409
so there's a there's a really good story

1959
01:25:59,330 --> 01:25:57,179
there and I think people are gonna like

1960
01:26:02,300 --> 01:25:59,340
it a lot the title of the book is the

1961
01:26:03,979 --> 01:26:02,310
Close Encounters man how dr. J Allen

1962
01:26:06,830 --> 01:26:03,989
Hynek made it okay for America to

1963
01:26:08,419 --> 01:26:06,840
believe in UFOs because because the

1964
01:26:12,589 --> 01:26:08,429
thrust of the book is that because of

1965
01:26:14,899 --> 01:26:12,599
his work we now live in a world even

1966
01:26:17,109 --> 01:26:14,909
though he died in 1986 he's the man's

1967
01:26:20,180 --> 01:26:17,119
been gone a very long time but his work

1968
01:26:22,850 --> 01:26:20,190
planted a seed that has just bloomed

1969
01:26:24,620 --> 01:26:22,860
into you could easily call it a UFO

1970
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:24,630
industry but more than that it's it's

1971
01:26:29,629 --> 01:26:27,449
it's developed into you know a set of

1972
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,639
cultural beliefs everybody knows what a

1973
01:26:33,859 --> 01:26:32,159
close encounter is and Hynek thought of

1974
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:33,869
that terminology

1975
01:26:38,899 --> 01:26:36,449
you know and Spielberg used it for his

1976
01:26:40,129 --> 01:26:38,909
movie and it's part of our cultural you

1977
01:26:44,569 --> 01:26:40,139
know it's it's a cultural reference

1978
01:26:46,879 --> 01:26:44,579
point now so like I say I think I think

1979
01:26:49,189 --> 01:26:46,889
I have a good story to tell and I'm very

1980
01:26:51,109 --> 01:26:49,199
excited about the book Wow

1981
01:26:52,339 --> 01:26:51,119
yep I'd know someone that knew him

1982
01:26:53,929 --> 01:26:52,349
personally

1983
01:26:57,290 --> 01:26:53,939
someone just mentioned on the message

1984
01:26:59,659 --> 01:26:57,300
board Rea Stanford is actually he does

1985
01:27:00,979 --> 01:26:59,669
listen to the show quite a bit will

1986
01:27:01,969 --> 01:27:00,989
probably listen to this show in

1987
01:27:04,729 --> 01:27:01,979
particular I don't know if he's

1988
01:27:06,979 --> 01:27:04,739
listening now or not but Rea Stanford is

1989
01:27:08,989 --> 01:27:06,989
a good resource probably to get some

1990
01:27:12,129 --> 01:27:08,999
information from I would love to talk

1991
01:27:15,859 --> 01:27:12,139
with him yeah I can set all that up

1992
01:27:20,469 --> 01:27:15,869
easily and so you gave me a couple of

1993
01:27:24,199 --> 01:27:20,479
fun questions that I could ask you and

1994
01:27:26,869 --> 01:27:24,209
why are and I'm going to I want to know

1995
01:27:33,619 --> 01:27:26,879
this one why are you follow just so

1996
01:27:35,449 --> 01:27:33,629
grumpy I love that one grumpy is too

1997
01:27:38,359 --> 01:27:35,459
strong a word I shouldn't have used the

1998
01:27:40,669 --> 01:27:38,369
word grumpy because what I was really

1999
01:27:42,139 --> 01:27:40,679
what I was really getting at was and

2000
01:27:43,969 --> 01:27:42,149
again this good good this goes back to

2001
01:27:46,759 --> 01:27:43,979
when I first started the blog four years

2002
01:27:49,929 --> 01:27:46,769
ago and I and I started reading other

2003
01:27:52,100 --> 01:27:49,939
people's blogs and and just found that

2004
01:27:54,830 --> 01:27:52,110
like I said there are an awful lot of

2005
01:27:56,540 --> 01:27:54,840
very serious you have host scholars who

2006
01:28:00,290 --> 01:27:56,550
were doing very serious work and very

2007
01:28:02,359 --> 01:28:00,300
serious writing and I wanted to try to

2008
01:28:05,509 --> 01:28:02,369
find a way to stand out from that in my

2009
01:28:07,310 --> 01:28:05,519
own way so to me I just sort of tended

2010
01:28:09,169 --> 01:28:07,320
to look at these serious writers as you

2011
01:28:11,060 --> 01:28:09,179
know maybe a little grumpy sometimes and

2012
01:28:14,149 --> 01:28:11,070
maybe maybe a little set in their ways

2013
01:28:15,709 --> 01:28:14,159
it's probably it's probably unfair as I

2014
01:28:19,279 --> 01:28:15,719
say grumpy is probably too strong a word

2015
01:28:23,679 --> 01:28:19,289
but having said that I I do think that

2016
01:28:30,739 --> 01:28:23,689
there is it's interesting to me how many

2017
01:28:33,409 --> 01:28:30,749
ufologists have a hard time looking at

2018
01:28:36,619 --> 01:28:33,419
the phenomenon with any sort of sense of

2019
01:28:38,540 --> 01:28:36,629
humor because it does get pretty strange

2020
01:28:42,619 --> 01:28:38,550
sometimes and sometimes it's kind of

2021
01:28:44,509 --> 01:28:42,629
funny how strange it gets you know kind

2022
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:44,519
of to the point where it just defies it

2023
01:28:47,450 --> 01:28:45,449
defies belief

2024
01:28:49,010 --> 01:28:47,460
how strange things get

2025
01:28:51,530 --> 01:28:49,020
and I think there are things in this

2026
01:28:55,010 --> 01:28:51,540
world there are things in the UM UFO

2027
01:28:56,510 --> 01:28:55,020
world that can be pretty funny and I was

2028
01:28:58,430 --> 01:28:56,520
very surprised to find that not many

2029
01:29:00,260 --> 01:28:58,440
people seem to recognize that or

2030
01:29:04,220 --> 01:29:00,270
appreciate that so that's kind of what

2031
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:04,230
I've set out to illuminate in my work I

2032
01:29:10,180 --> 01:29:08,130
like that I do I have brought up a

2033
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:10,190
number of times that a lot of times

2034
01:29:16,430 --> 01:29:14,610
people do get sort of tarnished you know

2035
01:29:18,530 --> 01:29:16,440
I I talked to a number of people that

2036
01:29:21,110 --> 01:29:18,540
have been in the field for a long time

2037
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:21,120
and you know a lot of times they just

2038
01:29:28,570 --> 01:29:22,650
say you know I've had it you know

2039
01:29:36,590 --> 01:29:31,610
think we may have lost mark I'm gonna

2040
01:29:38,540 --> 01:29:36,600
try to get him back Marky there I'm

2041
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:38,550
sorry something happened I get I

2042
01:29:42,740 --> 01:29:40,770
accidentally cut us off I'm here you're

2043
01:29:44,150 --> 01:29:42,750
back okay you're gonna have to move up

2044
01:29:47,380 --> 01:29:44,160
to your mic and can just barely hear you

2045
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:47,390
okay yeah is that there you are okay I

2046
01:29:54,050 --> 01:29:50,489
forgot what I was babbling about but I'm

2047
01:29:56,840 --> 01:29:54,060
sorry no no no it basically that a lot

2048
01:29:59,090 --> 01:29:56,850
of ufologists get sort of burnt out I

2049
01:30:01,640 --> 01:29:59,100
guess that might be the phrase mm-hmm

2050
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:01,650
you know they they are not seeing

2051
01:30:09,100 --> 01:30:04,050
anything happen with in many years any

2052
01:30:11,810 --> 01:30:09,110
changes so I can understand that

2053
01:30:13,400 --> 01:30:11,820
yeah and that you know and that and I've

2054
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:13,410
only been this I've only been in this

2055
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:15,210
for four years and I can already kind of

2056
01:30:19,790 --> 01:30:17,489
feel some of that myself it does get

2057
01:30:25,490 --> 01:30:19,800
very it does get very frustrating when

2058
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:25,500
you feel as though every we we we as a

2059
01:30:30,709 --> 01:30:27,570
group you follow just people who are

2060
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:30,719
interested in the field have tried so

2061
01:30:36,110 --> 01:30:32,850
many different approaches to try to get

2062
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:36,120
a handle on on what this phenomenon is

2063
01:30:39,979 --> 01:30:39,570
and what it means and seem to come up

2064
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:39,989
short

2065
01:30:44,570 --> 01:30:42,570
every with every attempt it does

2066
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:44,580
definitely lead to a sense of

2067
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:46,530
frustration what it's like what have we

2068
01:30:52,459 --> 01:30:48,690
not thought of what haven't we tried and

2069
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:52,469
and boy I just don't know I don't know

2070
01:30:58,070 --> 01:30:55,890
what the answer is to that right same

2071
01:31:01,670 --> 01:30:58,080
here one of your other funny questions

2072
01:31:06,020 --> 01:31:01,680
here was what is your favorite level

2073
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:06,030
at the Dulce underground base and we've

2074
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:07,770
talked about that a number of times on

2075
01:31:11,990 --> 01:31:09,690
this show you know basically that it was

2076
01:31:14,870 --> 01:31:12,000
just disinformation Paul bennewitz

2077
01:31:16,970 --> 01:31:14,880
disinformation but that you know going

2078
01:31:19,370 --> 01:31:16,980
back to the myth that becomes reality

2079
01:31:21,980 --> 01:31:19,380
there's a lot of people out there that

2080
01:31:23,180 --> 01:31:21,990
still think there's underground there's

2081
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:23,190
an underground base there with the

2082
01:31:28,310 --> 01:31:26,370
aliens Thanks yeah and I first came

2083
01:31:32,150 --> 01:31:28,320
across this this happened right when I

2084
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:32,160
started writing the blog so summer or

2085
01:31:38,090 --> 01:31:34,770
summer in fall of 2011 there's actually

2086
01:31:40,610 --> 01:31:38,100
a very very small but popular UFO

2087
01:31:43,010 --> 01:31:40,620
conference not far from here it's called

2088
01:31:45,140 --> 01:31:43,020
the Burlington vortex conference so it's

2089
01:31:46,910 --> 01:31:45,150
not just UFOs there is a vortex in the

2090
01:31:50,060 --> 01:31:46,920
woods outside of this town of Burlington

2091
01:31:51,980 --> 01:31:50,070
Wisconsin so I went to this again

2092
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:51,990
looking for material point blog and I

2093
01:31:56,180 --> 01:31:53,370
actually ended up writing an article

2094
01:31:57,860 --> 01:31:56,190
about it from Milwaukee magazine but I

2095
01:32:00,080 --> 01:31:57,870
met a young couple there who were

2096
01:32:02,270 --> 01:32:00,090
fascinated with Dulce base and they I

2097
01:32:04,250 --> 01:32:02,280
had never heard of it before and they

2098
01:32:07,850 --> 01:32:04,260
started telling me about it and man they

2099
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:07,860
were dead serious they were like they

2100
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:10,080
believed every word of it oh my god yes

2101
01:32:14,030 --> 01:32:12,090
they're the Grays live on this level and

2102
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:14,040
the Reptoids live on that level and you

2103
01:32:18,530 --> 01:32:16,530
know and the mantises hate the Reptoids

2104
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:18,540
and the Reptoids hate the greys and I

2105
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:21,690
was just I was kind of blown away I had

2106
01:32:29,990 --> 01:32:24,930
I would I was not prepared for that deep

2107
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:30,000
level of Mythology and to and to find

2108
01:32:33,830 --> 01:32:32,010
that this really is a thing this is a

2109
01:32:36,470 --> 01:32:33,840
thing that a lot of a lot of people say

2110
01:32:39,290 --> 01:32:36,480
is true was just kind of a stunner for

2111
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:39,300
me I also had I want to tell this story

2112
01:32:44,180 --> 01:32:40,890
too because it's kind of along those

2113
01:32:47,510 --> 01:32:44,190
same lines where you have you really

2114
01:32:49,460 --> 01:32:47,520
have to wonder where what makes people

2115
01:32:51,470 --> 01:32:49,470
believe certain things and where your

2116
01:32:53,660 --> 01:32:51,480
own belief system kind of comes up short

2117
01:32:56,630 --> 01:32:53,670
I had a really fascinating case from

2118
01:33:00,620 --> 01:32:56,640
MUFON a couple years ago it was a young

2119
01:33:04,370 --> 01:33:00,630
a college student who had been home for

2120
01:33:06,050 --> 01:33:04,380
home for summer break and he was staying

2121
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:06,060
at his home folks house and he was

2122
01:33:10,070 --> 01:33:08,010
driving home from that one night in the

2123
01:33:11,900 --> 01:33:10,080
late at night around midnight and he saw

2124
01:33:14,390 --> 01:33:11,910
this object fly across the highway in

2125
01:33:15,419 --> 01:33:14,400
front of him it was glowing blue it was

2126
01:33:18,719 --> 01:33:15,429
about the size of her

2127
01:33:20,790 --> 01:33:18,729
frigerator it zoomed across the highway

2128
01:33:23,759 --> 01:33:20,800
about three feet off the ground and as

2129
01:33:25,949 --> 01:33:23,769
it flashed past the front of his car he

2130
01:33:28,859 --> 01:33:25,959
could have sworn that his dash lights

2131
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:28,869
flickered okay so technically that makes

2132
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:30,489
it a close encounter of the second kind

2133
01:33:34,890 --> 01:33:32,170
right because they're they're physical

2134
01:33:38,189 --> 01:33:34,900
effects on the environment so by the

2135
01:33:40,500 --> 01:33:38,199
time they reported this and I was able

2136
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:40,510
to meet with the family their son had

2137
01:33:44,429 --> 01:33:42,489
already gone back to I think it was I

2138
01:33:46,379 --> 01:33:44,439
can't remember it was it was out of

2139
01:33:48,810 --> 01:33:46,389
state he had gone back to college out of

2140
01:33:50,279 --> 01:33:48,820
state so I couldn't talk to him but I

2141
01:33:51,629 --> 01:33:50,289
had a really fascinating talk with the

2142
01:33:53,580 --> 01:33:51,639
parents and they told me the whole story

2143
01:33:55,859 --> 01:33:53,590
from their point of view about you know

2144
01:33:57,209 --> 01:33:55,869
how their son called him and called them

2145
01:33:59,160 --> 01:33:57,219
immediately and they could tell how

2146
01:34:01,529 --> 01:33:59,170
shaken up he was and they were sure he

2147
01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:01,539
wasn't making this up but as we talked

2148
01:34:06,870 --> 01:34:04,170
it turned out that this family has had a

2149
01:34:08,339 --> 01:34:06,880
whole lot of really strange experiences

2150
01:34:10,859 --> 01:34:08,349
some of them centered on the house they

2151
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:10,869
live in a very old house and they were

2152
01:34:13,859 --> 01:34:12,249
telling me about how they think they

2153
01:34:15,509 --> 01:34:13,869
have shadow people living in their house

2154
01:34:18,629 --> 01:34:15,519
that was a new one to me I had never

2155
01:34:21,029 --> 01:34:18,639
heard of shadow people but then at some

2156
01:34:22,739 --> 01:34:21,039
point in the conversation the the the

2157
01:34:24,239 --> 01:34:22,749
the father said hey there's there's

2158
01:34:28,890 --> 01:34:24,249
something I want to show you I've never

2159
01:34:30,509 --> 01:34:28,900
shown this to anyone it was it was part

2160
01:34:32,910 --> 01:34:30,519
of their family history and it was sort

2161
01:34:35,339 --> 01:34:32,920
of sensitive because it revealed it

2162
01:34:36,959 --> 01:34:35,349
revealed some private life details of

2163
01:34:39,330 --> 01:34:36,969
some of their relatives that they wanted

2164
01:34:41,250 --> 01:34:39,340
to keep private so they never wanted to

2165
01:34:43,679 --> 01:34:41,260
share this letter with anyone but the

2166
01:34:45,479 --> 01:34:43,689
guy but he shared it with me and said

2167
01:34:48,359 --> 01:34:45,489
you know please don't you know don't

2168
01:34:50,879 --> 01:34:48,369
like broadcast this everywhere but I'd

2169
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:50,889
like to know what you think of it and it

2170
01:34:55,969 --> 01:34:52,570
was a letter from a friend of the family

2171
01:35:00,179 --> 01:34:55,979
to a family member from 1950 from

2172
01:35:03,390 --> 01:35:00,189
Pendleton Airport I know what was it

2173
01:35:05,310 --> 01:35:03,400
Pendleton ok I'm blanking on that now

2174
01:35:07,229 --> 01:35:05,320
but it was it was in airbase in

2175
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:07,239
California mm-hmm

2176
01:35:12,929 --> 01:35:10,090
and the person writing the letter was

2177
01:35:15,390 --> 01:35:12,939
had been a serviceman in 1915 and told

2178
01:35:17,790 --> 01:35:15,400
this very long it was like 10 sheets of

2179
01:35:21,779 --> 01:35:17,800
paper this very long story about how he

2180
01:35:25,709 --> 01:35:21,789
and his he and his platoon had been

2181
01:35:27,509 --> 01:35:25,719
exposed to a genuine flying saucer and

2182
01:35:28,860 --> 01:35:27,519
they had been exposed to all this

2183
01:35:30,810 --> 01:35:28,870
information about how the

2184
01:35:32,730 --> 01:35:30,820
flying saucer worked and who piloted it

2185
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:32,740
and where it came from and it was in

2186
01:35:37,530 --> 01:35:34,810
very explicit detail very precise

2187
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:37,540
wording in this letter and I was just

2188
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:39,970
fascinated by this and that you know

2189
01:35:43,140 --> 01:35:41,650
these folks had no idea what it meant

2190
01:35:45,330 --> 01:35:43,150
they just said you know we've we've

2191
01:35:48,900 --> 01:35:45,340
never been able to figure out is this

2192
01:35:51,450 --> 01:35:48,910
letter for real is it a joke and I said

2193
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:51,460
well and they so they asked me if I had

2194
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:53,050
any information and I said well like

2195
01:35:56,190 --> 01:35:54,730
there's somebody I can talk to who I

2196
01:35:59,100 --> 01:35:56,200
think might be able to shed some light

2197
01:36:01,650 --> 01:35:59,110
on this if you'll let me so I talked

2198
01:36:03,540 --> 01:36:01,660
with I went back to my main source dr.

2199
01:36:06,390 --> 01:36:03,550
mark Rutter Garrett at the Center for

2200
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:06,400
UFO studies and I just started reading

2201
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:08,290
him just a couple little passages from

2202
01:36:12,390 --> 01:36:09,970
this letter just to give a sort of a

2203
01:36:13,140 --> 01:36:12,400
flavor of the detail in this and he said

2204
01:36:15,480 --> 01:36:13,150
hang on a minute

2205
01:36:16,650 --> 01:36:15,490
I know what that is and he went to a

2206
01:36:18,210 --> 01:36:16,660
bookshelf and he got a book off the

2207
01:36:20,130 --> 01:36:18,220
shelf and he came back to the phone and

2208
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:20,140
he's flipped open this book and he

2209
01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:22,650
started reading back to me word for word

2210
01:36:27,870 --> 01:36:24,880
everything that was in this letter that

2211
01:36:29,820 --> 01:36:27,880
those people had and it turned out the

2212
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:29,830
book he was reading from was Frank

2213
01:36:37,830 --> 01:36:34,410
Scully's 1950 UFO book in which Scully

2214
01:36:39,870 --> 01:36:37,840
unleashed the concept of the flying

2215
01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:39,880
saucer crash and the captive flying

2216
01:36:45,780 --> 01:36:43,330
saucer and alien corpses and you know

2217
01:36:49,500 --> 01:36:45,790
that was a very elaborate and detailed

2218
01:36:52,250 --> 01:36:49,510
hoax and here somehow these people in

2219
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:52,260
Wisconsin had that very same story

2220
01:36:56,190 --> 01:36:54,730
written in a personal letter from a

2221
01:36:58,740 --> 01:36:56,200
friend of the family to a member of

2222
01:37:00,810 --> 01:36:58,750
their family how do you account for that

2223
01:37:03,990 --> 01:37:00,820
mark and I just had a really interesting

2224
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:04,000
conversation trying to figure out you

2225
01:37:08,490 --> 01:37:06,130
know what does all this mean you know we

2226
01:37:11,220 --> 01:37:08,500
finally decided that it must be some

2227
01:37:13,890 --> 01:37:11,230
sort of psychological some sort of some

2228
01:37:17,850 --> 01:37:13,900
sort of psyops that the military was

2229
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:17,860
doing to try to sort of inoculate us

2230
01:37:25,830 --> 01:37:21,600
against fear of aliens from other worlds

2231
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:25,840
by sort of selectively showing different

2232
01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:29,370
people things that they would believe

2233
01:37:33,420 --> 01:37:31,450
represented aliens from another world

2234
01:37:35,310 --> 01:37:33,430
whether they did or not didn't matter as

2235
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:35,320
long as they believed that it did and

2236
01:37:38,970 --> 01:37:37,330
then that story would just sort of

2237
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:38,980
spread out through people sending these

2238
01:37:42,180 --> 01:37:41,530
letters to friends and things so that

2239
01:37:46,290 --> 01:37:42,190
when

2240
01:37:49,350 --> 01:37:46,300
appear we would all be sort of prepared

2241
01:37:51,060 --> 01:37:49,360
for it on a certain level that theory

2242
01:37:52,740 --> 01:37:51,070
makes as much sense as anything else it

2243
01:37:54,780 --> 01:37:52,750
was one of the strangest one of the

2244
01:37:55,979 --> 01:37:54,790
strangest experiences I've had as a

2245
01:37:58,290 --> 01:37:55,989
MUFON investigator

2246
01:37:59,550 --> 01:37:58,300
it still makes me scratch my head I just

2247
01:38:01,970 --> 01:37:59,560
don't know what to make of it but again

2248
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:01,980
it goes back to that whole issue of of

2249
01:38:07,530 --> 01:38:05,290
myth making and how do you know where

2250
01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:07,540
the myth starts and where you know how

2251
01:38:12,030 --> 01:38:09,280
much of it is that how much of it is the

2252
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:12,040
person's actual experience and how much

2253
01:38:17,790 --> 01:38:13,930
of it has been sort of added on over the

2254
01:38:21,060 --> 01:38:17,800
years who knows Wow I wonder if anyone

2255
01:38:24,780 --> 01:38:21,070
out there has ever heard about a similar

2256
01:38:27,470 --> 01:38:24,790
similar letter written or if this was

2257
01:38:30,990 --> 01:38:27,480
just you know one person's idea of

2258
01:38:34,170 --> 01:38:31,000
hoaxing their family you know me today

2259
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:34,180
it's YouTube right you're exactly right

2260
01:38:38,250 --> 01:38:36,250
well that was one of the things mark and

2261
01:38:41,580 --> 01:38:38,260
I talked about this the person who wrote

2262
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:41,590
the letter was that person being hoaxed

2263
01:38:47,070 --> 01:38:45,610
or was that person part of a hoax you

2264
01:38:48,390 --> 01:38:47,080
know I mean there's so many ways you can

2265
01:38:50,939 --> 01:38:48,400
go with it and there's so many different

2266
01:38:56,070 --> 01:38:50,949
levels to the story it can kind of drive

2267
01:38:58,290 --> 01:38:56,080
you nuts did you say this was 1952 well

2268
01:38:59,939 --> 01:38:58,300
I know Scott oh yeah the letter was

2269
01:39:02,250 --> 01:38:59,949
dated in 1952 that's correct

2270
01:39:03,630 --> 01:39:02,260
Scully's book was published in 1950 so

2271
01:39:06,270 --> 01:39:03,640
this was two years after the book came

2272
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:06,280
out and that's when the most sightings

2273
01:39:12,930 --> 01:39:09,760
were seen in this whole country during

2274
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:12,940
that time 1952 yeah which we now know is

2275
01:39:18,060 --> 01:39:14,410
because of the CIA and their u-2 spy

2276
01:39:24,300 --> 01:39:18,070
plane well there is I think we stopped

2277
01:39:28,140 --> 01:39:24,310
yeah at least according to them yeah I'm

2278
01:39:29,939 --> 01:39:28,150
gonna read another one of one of your

2279
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:29,949
questions that I thought was kind of

2280
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:33,130
humorous and that as should have Kenneth

2281
01:39:40,410 --> 01:39:38,890
Arnold kept his lips sealed well yeah

2282
01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:40,420
that's something I think about since

2283
01:39:44,430 --> 01:39:41,890
I've been working on this book because

2284
01:39:47,850 --> 01:39:44,440
you know as we all know it cut it all it

2285
01:39:50,490 --> 01:39:47,860
all goes back to Kenneth Arnold in his

2286
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:50,500
in in his plane flying over the Cascade

2287
01:39:54,740 --> 01:39:52,530
Mountains and he saw those nine

2288
01:39:59,210 --> 01:39:54,750
crescent-shaped

2289
01:40:01,670 --> 01:39:59,220
the air in a straight line among the

2290
01:40:06,110 --> 01:40:01,680
mountain peaks I don't know it's a

2291
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:06,120
fascinating story and I think I guess to

2292
01:40:09,350 --> 01:40:07,890
give you a serious answer I think if it

2293
01:40:11,510 --> 01:40:09,360
hadn't been him it would have been

2294
01:40:13,550 --> 01:40:11,520
somebody else probably within that same

2295
01:40:15,380 --> 01:40:13,560
historical time period mm-hmm because

2296
01:40:18,110 --> 01:40:15,390
because I have a feeling that that was

2297
01:40:20,270 --> 01:40:18,120
just sort of the right time for this

2298
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:20,280
phenomenon to present itself to us I

2299
01:40:24,950 --> 01:40:22,050
don't know why I say that I just have

2300
01:40:26,630 --> 01:40:24,960
kind of a gut feeling that if it hadn't

2301
01:40:28,130 --> 01:40:26,640
been Kenneth Arnold it would have been

2302
01:40:30,290 --> 01:40:28,140
somebody else because that was the time

2303
01:40:31,910 --> 01:40:30,300
it had to happen but you know then

2304
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:31,920
Kenneth Arnold gets involved in that

2305
01:40:38,060 --> 01:40:35,370
whole Maury island thing where where he

2306
01:40:40,820 --> 01:40:38,070
suddenly becomes you know amateur UFO

2307
01:40:43,700 --> 01:40:40,830
investigator and seems to be dealing

2308
01:40:47,170 --> 01:40:43,710
with you know con men who are several

2309
01:40:49,610 --> 01:40:47,180
pay scales above him that that story

2310
01:40:51,530 --> 01:40:49,620
that story really makes me wonder about

2311
01:40:54,140 --> 01:40:51,540
Kenneth Arnold that story makes me wish

2312
01:40:57,530 --> 01:40:54,150
he had kind of kept his Yap shut there's

2313
01:41:00,200 --> 01:40:57,540
I think I read something or briefly or

2314
01:41:03,080 --> 01:41:00,210
someone sent me something that Mauri

2315
01:41:06,020 --> 01:41:03,090
Island is now considered a hoax I don't

2316
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:06,030
know I could just be I'm just saying

2317
01:41:12,940 --> 01:41:07,650
that I don't know if that's true or not

2318
01:41:14,930 --> 01:41:12,950
but you know that that was quite a story

2319
01:41:16,820 --> 01:41:14,940
unfortunately you know the question of

2320
01:41:20,390 --> 01:41:16,830
whether the question of whether the case

2321
01:41:22,460 --> 01:41:20,400
itself was a hoax or it started out as

2322
01:41:24,500 --> 01:41:22,470
something genuine but then it got sort

2323
01:41:27,740 --> 01:41:24,510
of turned into a hoax because of some

2324
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:27,750
misinformed disinformation campaign you

2325
01:41:31,220 --> 01:41:29,850
know you kind of have to look at it you

2326
01:41:33,440 --> 01:41:31,230
kind of have to at least consider that

2327
01:41:37,970 --> 01:41:33,450
possibility as well I think yeah I mean

2328
01:41:39,710 --> 01:41:37,980
there was a crash also to a pilot and I

2329
01:41:42,650 --> 01:41:39,720
think was Air Force people wasn't it

2330
01:41:45,050 --> 01:41:42,660
that we're investigating and had some of

2331
01:41:47,900 --> 01:41:45,060
the so-called evidence with them in a

2332
01:41:49,220 --> 01:41:47,910
plane that crashed I'm not sure if you

2333
01:41:50,390 --> 01:41:49,230
know I can't remember if they were Air

2334
01:41:52,250 --> 01:41:50,400
Force people but I think they were

2335
01:41:56,690 --> 01:41:52,260
governed with people

2336
01:41:58,700 --> 01:41:56,700
at any rate yeah some agency right so

2337
01:42:03,170 --> 01:41:58,710
what do you think what is your idea of

2338
01:42:05,330 --> 01:42:03,180
the best UFO case out there oh I'm so

2339
01:42:06,620 --> 01:42:05,340
glad you asked that I there there are a

2340
01:42:07,729 --> 01:42:06,630
couple that I've just really become

2341
01:42:10,459 --> 01:42:07,739
fascinated with

2342
01:42:11,930 --> 01:42:10,469
worked on the Hynek book there's some

2343
01:42:13,759 --> 01:42:11,940
that I haven't gotten to yet that I'm

2344
01:42:17,180 --> 01:42:13,769
looking forward to getting to namely the

2345
01:42:18,739 --> 01:42:17,190
coin helicopter case oh yeah 1873 mm-hmm

2346
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:18,749
I think that's gonna be a really

2347
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:20,489
fascinating case because you know that

2348
01:42:25,850 --> 01:42:23,730
the coin case basically became hynix

2349
01:42:30,290 --> 01:42:25,860
gold standard for a UFO

2350
01:42:32,540 --> 01:42:30,300
a UFO event credible observers all

2351
01:42:35,660 --> 01:42:32,550
trained observers you know they're all

2352
01:42:38,470 --> 01:42:35,670
all the help a helicopter crew their

2353
01:42:40,759 --> 01:42:38,480
their their eyewitness testimony all

2354
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:40,769
corroboree day all corroborated each

2355
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:41,280
other

2356
01:42:46,669 --> 01:42:43,650
it was additionally corroborated by

2357
01:42:48,379 --> 01:42:46,679
witnesses on the ground who saw saw what

2358
01:42:50,739 --> 01:42:48,389
was happening and thought that they are

2359
01:42:53,569 --> 01:42:50,749
about to witness a mid-air collision

2360
01:42:54,739 --> 01:42:53,579
that's a very very compelling case and

2361
01:42:56,779 --> 01:42:54,749
I'm really looking forward to digging

2362
01:42:59,390 --> 01:42:56,789
into that my personal favorite though is

2363
01:43:01,040 --> 01:42:59,400
the Pascagoula abduction case huh which

2364
01:43:03,379 --> 01:43:01,050
which took place about three weeks

2365
01:43:06,709 --> 01:43:03,389
before the coin helicopter case and it's

2366
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:06,719
that's my favorite because again going

2367
01:43:11,479 --> 01:43:09,090
back to my childhood I can still

2368
01:43:13,279 --> 01:43:11,489
remember that would that was 1973 I

2369
01:43:17,330 --> 01:43:13,289
would have been around 13 years old I

2370
01:43:20,270 --> 01:43:17,340
can still remember that that case made

2371
01:43:22,370 --> 01:43:20,280
national made the national news they

2372
01:43:24,109 --> 01:43:22,380
reported on it on the radio they

2373
01:43:26,689 --> 01:43:24,119
reported on it in the newspaper they

2374
01:43:27,500 --> 01:43:26,699
reported it on the TV news and that was

2375
01:43:31,270 --> 01:43:27,510
a first for me

2376
01:43:35,359 --> 01:43:31,280
I don't I had never been aware at least

2377
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:35,369
before then of a UFO case hitting the

2378
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:37,050
big time as far as the national press

2379
01:43:44,089 --> 01:43:42,170
goes and to me that sort of mentality

2380
01:43:46,939 --> 01:43:44,099
more it was something that really

2381
01:43:48,709 --> 01:43:46,949
happens to real people and I was I was

2382
01:43:51,859 --> 01:43:48,719
just really drawn in by that story and

2383
01:43:54,169 --> 01:43:51,869
I've always been a huge fan of that did

2384
01:43:58,419 --> 01:43:54,179
you did you contact me a while ago to

2385
01:44:02,120 --> 01:43:58,429
get a hold of Calvin I believe I did yes

2386
01:44:05,779 --> 01:44:02,130
remember yeah yeah Calvin Calvin's a

2387
01:44:07,910 --> 01:44:05,789
great guy I had him on he rarely does

2388
01:44:12,500 --> 01:44:07,920
interviews and I was lucky enough to get

2389
01:44:15,290 --> 01:44:12,510
him on he's the sole survivor of that

2390
01:44:17,959 --> 01:44:15,300
incident and kind of a really great

2391
01:44:22,359 --> 01:44:17,969
story I'll just tell you I have told it

2392
01:44:24,649 --> 01:44:22,369
quickly on the show that show actually

2393
01:44:27,350 --> 01:44:24,659
connected him to his estranged daughter

2394
01:44:31,790 --> 01:44:27,360
and they talk to each other every single

2395
01:44:33,950 --> 01:44:31,800
day she found his information on my show

2396
01:44:35,359 --> 01:44:33,960
and contacted me and I got the two

2397
01:44:37,430 --> 01:44:35,369
together it was just one of those great

2398
01:44:39,169 --> 01:44:37,440
things that makes me really happy that I

2399
01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:39,179
do this show that you know something

2400
01:44:43,879 --> 01:44:42,090
like that happened out of it wow that's

2401
01:44:45,919 --> 01:44:43,889
really profound I'm glad you told me

2402
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:45,929
that story that's that's really kind of

2403
01:44:50,209 --> 01:44:47,730
giving me the chills well I'll tell you

2404
01:44:52,250 --> 01:44:50,219
he's such a nice gentleman it was a it

2405
01:44:55,899 --> 01:44:52,260
was a real pleasure talking to him well

2406
01:45:00,649 --> 01:44:55,909
you know researching that story it it he

2407
01:45:04,459 --> 01:45:00,659
he and and he and Charlie Higson both

2408
01:45:07,609 --> 01:45:04,469
come off as such sincere genuine people

2409
01:45:09,410 --> 01:45:07,619
I I really didn't I was surprised to

2410
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:09,420
find out how well-documented that case

2411
01:45:14,330 --> 01:45:12,050
was once I started doing their research

2412
01:45:16,399 --> 01:45:14,340
you know for the listener out there why

2413
01:45:20,359 --> 01:45:16,409
don't you just go over the case oh sure

2414
01:45:22,669 --> 01:45:20,369
sure these two men were out fishing on a

2415
01:45:25,310 --> 01:45:22,679
pier in Pascagoula Missouri near a

2416
01:45:27,049 --> 01:45:25,320
shipyard where they worked it was after

2417
01:45:29,089 --> 01:45:27,059
dark I can't remember how late maybe 10

2418
01:45:31,879 --> 01:45:29,099
or 11 at night and it was an older man

2419
01:45:35,930 --> 01:45:31,889
Charlie Hickson and a younger man Calvin

2420
01:45:37,339 --> 01:45:35,940
Parker who Charlie knew Calvin's parents

2421
01:45:38,779 --> 01:45:37,349
and he had sort of promised their

2422
01:45:40,520 --> 01:45:38,789
parents that he would sort of look after

2423
01:45:42,770 --> 01:45:40,530
him and see when he moved to the big

2424
01:45:45,049 --> 01:45:42,780
city so that so this two guys were out

2425
01:45:47,839 --> 01:45:45,059
fishing on the pier along this little

2426
01:45:49,310 --> 01:45:47,849
channel buying the shipyard and the fish

2427
01:45:49,850 --> 01:45:49,320
aren't biting and they can't figure out

2428
01:45:54,020 --> 01:45:49,860
why

2429
01:45:57,379 --> 01:45:54,030
and Charlie turns around to get some

2430
01:46:00,350 --> 01:45:57,389
bait from his tackle box and he sees

2431
01:46:02,629 --> 01:46:00,360
this blue glowing object sort of oval or

2432
01:46:03,319 --> 01:46:02,639
egg-shaped kind of dropping down out of

2433
01:46:05,990 --> 01:46:03,329
the sky

2434
01:46:10,609 --> 01:46:06,000
and it comes down and hovers on the

2435
01:46:12,169 --> 01:46:10,619
ground a short distance behind them by

2436
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:12,179
this time Calvin has turned around and

2437
01:46:18,140 --> 01:46:15,210
seen it both men stand up to look at it

2438
01:46:20,510 --> 01:46:18,150
and it's got this white egg shaped craft

2439
01:46:23,450 --> 01:46:20,520
has two two glowing blue lights on the

2440
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:23,460
side and as they watch a door opens on

2441
01:46:28,549 --> 01:46:25,730
the side of the object and these three

2442
01:46:30,049 --> 01:46:28,559
strange creatures come floating out they

2443
01:46:31,939 --> 01:46:30,059
never touched the ground they don't even

2444
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:31,949
really have feet they just have sort of

2445
01:46:35,660 --> 01:46:34,530
knobs at the ends of their legs and they

2446
01:46:37,790 --> 01:46:35,670
have sort of crab

2447
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:37,800
pinchers on the ends of their arms and

2448
01:46:43,970 --> 01:46:41,610
they have kind of featureless heads but

2449
01:46:45,919 --> 01:46:43,980
there's a pointy thing where the nose

2450
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:45,929
should be in - pointing things where the

2451
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:47,730
ears should be and there's a tiny little

2452
01:46:52,700 --> 01:46:49,410
slit where the mouth should be but there

2453
01:46:56,270 --> 01:46:52,710
are no eyes as I remember and Calvin and

2454
01:46:57,500 --> 01:46:56,280
Charlie feel paralyzed could have just

2455
01:46:59,540 --> 01:46:57,510
been fear or could have been something

2456
01:47:02,270 --> 01:46:59,550
else and these creatures kind of take

2457
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:02,280
them by the arms and and float them into

2458
01:47:06,919 --> 01:47:04,290
their craft

2459
01:47:08,390 --> 01:47:06,929
Calvin passes out as they're being led

2460
01:47:12,110 --> 01:47:08,400
into the craft so he doesn't remember

2461
01:47:15,830 --> 01:47:12,120
anything at least at the time Charlie

2462
01:47:18,709 --> 01:47:15,840
the older man stays awake and he's

2463
01:47:22,250 --> 01:47:18,719
invested he's sort of inspected inside

2464
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:22,260
the ship by this sort of mechanical eye

2465
01:47:26,870 --> 01:47:24,570
that sticks out of the wall right yeah

2466
01:47:29,780 --> 01:47:26,880
and it examines him from head to toe and

2467
01:47:30,580 --> 01:47:29,790
about 20 minutes later he they take him

2468
01:47:33,410 --> 01:47:30,590
back outside

2469
01:47:35,860 --> 01:47:33,420
Calvin's already out side of the craft

2470
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:35,870
he's sort of kneeling down on the gravel

2471
01:47:42,290 --> 01:47:40,080
just sort of petrified with fear and or

2472
01:47:45,500 --> 01:47:42,300
with his hands stretched out I think I'm

2473
01:47:49,130 --> 01:47:45,510
getting that detail right and they they

2474
01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:49,140
deposit Charlie the older man next to

2475
01:47:52,939 --> 01:47:50,730
him and they go floating back into the

2476
01:47:54,860 --> 01:47:52,949
craft and then the craft disappears it

2477
01:47:57,950 --> 01:47:54,870
doesn't the craft doesn't fly back up

2478
01:48:00,380 --> 01:47:57,960
into the sky it just kind of pops out of

2479
01:48:02,510 --> 01:48:00,390
existence which is an interesting detail

2480
01:48:04,850 --> 01:48:02,520
that pops up in a lot of UFO experiences

2481
01:48:06,350 --> 01:48:04,860
mm-hmm that is that's a real tricky

2482
01:48:08,479 --> 01:48:06,360
thing to explain I don't know what that

2483
01:48:09,890 --> 01:48:08,489
means but at any rate so these two men

2484
01:48:11,720 --> 01:48:09,900
have gone through this experience and

2485
01:48:13,220 --> 01:48:11,730
they go to the local sheriff and this is

2486
01:48:16,370 --> 01:48:13,230
one of the most famous parts of the case

2487
01:48:18,950 --> 01:48:16,380
the sheriff has completely bewildered by

2488
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:18,960
what these men are telling him of course

2489
01:48:22,220 --> 01:48:20,610
they split the two men up and they get

2490
01:48:25,820 --> 01:48:22,230
stories from each of the men and their

2491
01:48:27,890 --> 01:48:25,830
stories match up pretty much identically

2492
01:48:31,850 --> 01:48:27,900
aside from the fact that Calvin passed

2493
01:48:33,890 --> 01:48:31,860
out and then they leave the two men

2494
01:48:36,290 --> 01:48:33,900
together in an interrogation room with a

2495
01:48:38,240 --> 01:48:36,300
hidden tape recorder and the sheriff is

2496
01:48:39,350 --> 01:48:38,250
really pleased with how smart he is he

2497
01:48:41,930 --> 01:48:39,360
thinks he's going to get to the bottom

2498
01:48:43,580 --> 01:48:41,940
of this he thinks he thinks as soon as

2499
01:48:44,930 --> 01:48:43,590
they leave these two guys alone in their

2500
01:48:46,459 --> 01:48:44,940
room they're gonna start laughing their

2501
01:48:48,770 --> 01:48:46,469
heads off and slapping each other on the

2502
01:48:50,900 --> 01:48:48,780
backs you know congratulating the

2503
01:48:53,810 --> 01:48:50,910
selves on what a great joke they pulled

2504
01:48:56,360 --> 01:48:53,820
on the sheriff and instead they get a

2505
01:48:59,500 --> 01:48:56,370
tape recording of this conversation

2506
01:49:02,600 --> 01:48:59,510
between these two men who are clearly

2507
01:49:04,940 --> 01:49:02,610
just terrified out of their wits and

2508
01:49:06,590 --> 01:49:04,950
they have no idea how to process what

2509
01:49:08,420 --> 01:49:06,600
they've just gone through and they just

2510
01:49:13,700 --> 01:49:08,430
want to go home and have a stiff drink

2511
01:49:15,580 --> 01:49:13,710
and get to bed and forget it all and the

2512
01:49:17,780 --> 01:49:15,590
sheriff and his deputies are just

2513
01:49:19,430 --> 01:49:17,790
astounded by this tape recording it's

2514
01:49:22,610 --> 01:49:19,440
the exact opposite of what they thought

2515
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:22,620
they would hear and so the two guys go

2516
01:49:27,740 --> 01:49:26,130
home and the sheriff promises them that

2517
01:49:30,410 --> 01:49:27,750
he will not tell anybody about what

2518
01:49:33,020 --> 01:49:30,420
happened but the next day Pascagoula

2519
01:49:34,700 --> 01:49:33,030
Missouri is filled with reporters from

2520
01:49:35,900 --> 01:49:34,710
all over the country somehow the story

2521
01:49:39,140 --> 01:49:35,910
leaks out from the Sheriff's Department

2522
01:49:40,910 --> 01:49:39,150
and the press picks it up and Hynek was

2523
01:49:43,100 --> 01:49:40,920
there to investigate Hynek was actually

2524
01:49:45,590 --> 01:49:43,110
working as a consultant to NBC news at

2525
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:45,600
the time on a news special that they

2526
01:49:51,770 --> 01:49:47,730
were preparing on the UFO phenomenon and

2527
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:51,780
so Hynek was behind it was flown down to

2528
01:49:57,080 --> 01:49:54,570
Pascagoula and he was there when a

2529
01:49:59,720 --> 01:49:57,090
psychologist attempted to hypnotize the

2530
01:50:02,000 --> 01:49:59,730
two witnesses and that attempt that

2531
01:50:03,770 --> 01:50:02,010
attempt failed because they were both so

2532
01:50:06,530 --> 01:50:03,780
terrified every time the hypnotist tried

2533
01:50:09,110 --> 01:50:06,540
to get these two gentlemen to relive

2534
01:50:10,850 --> 01:50:09,120
their experience they would just become

2535
01:50:13,310 --> 01:50:10,860
completely terrified and they couldn't

2536
01:50:15,440 --> 01:50:13,320
go on so they just had to stop the the

2537
01:50:16,660 --> 01:50:15,450
hypnosis it just didn't work about a

2538
01:50:18,500 --> 01:50:16,670
month later

2539
01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:18,510
Calvin by this time had been

2540
01:50:23,660 --> 01:50:21,810
institutionalized for the first time as

2541
01:50:26,180 --> 01:50:23,670
a result of his experience so Charlie

2542
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:26,190
the older man undertook a polygraph test

2543
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:28,530
and he passed the polygraph test with

2544
01:50:33,590 --> 01:50:29,970
flying colors and the polygraph operator

2545
01:50:36,500 --> 01:50:33,600
was quoted as saying I'm not saying he

2546
01:50:38,210 --> 01:50:36,510
saw a spaceship but when he says he saw

2547
01:50:41,330 --> 01:50:38,220
a spaceship he's not lying

2548
01:50:42,440 --> 01:50:41,340
hmm it's an incredible story I'm getting

2549
01:50:46,700 --> 01:50:42,450
the goosebumps just telling the story

2550
01:50:49,970 --> 01:50:46,710
yeah well you told it pretty well ya

2551
01:50:53,270 --> 01:50:49,980
know that to me I was thrilled to get to

2552
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:53,280
get a hold of Calvin and and have him on

2553
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:56,130
the show and you know it's it's kind of

2554
01:50:59,600 --> 01:50:57,360
funny I'd almost like to have someone

2555
01:51:00,740 --> 01:50:59,610
like him back but it's basically telling

2556
01:51:02,650 --> 01:51:00,750
the same story

2557
01:51:04,420 --> 01:51:02,660
however I've had

2558
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:04,430
I've had Travis Walton on like five

2559
01:51:12,010 --> 01:51:06,890
times so maybe that's another

2560
01:51:14,130 --> 01:51:12,020
interesting case in my opinion so those

2561
01:51:16,780 --> 01:51:14,140
are really good stories we have about Oh

2562
01:51:23,500 --> 01:51:16,790
somewhere around five minutes or so left

2563
01:51:25,300 --> 01:51:23,510
and so let's see I'm gonna you did make

2564
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:25,310
this list of really funny questions so

2565
01:51:32,110 --> 01:51:28,130
I'm gonna see if I can just ask I'm well

2566
01:51:40,480 --> 01:51:36,990
which cable TV UFO show is the best or

2567
01:51:45,010 --> 01:51:40,490
or at least the worst as far as

2568
01:51:48,370 --> 01:51:45,020
reenactments of UFO cases I can't say

2569
01:51:50,170 --> 01:51:48,380
that I've seen all of the shows but what

2570
01:51:52,900 --> 01:51:50,180
I have seen I've been very impressed

2571
01:51:54,940 --> 01:51:52,910
with the Canadian show called Close

2572
01:51:57,340 --> 01:51:54,950
Encounters I can't remember which

2573
01:51:59,140 --> 01:51:57,350
channel it's on now I'm a little biased

2574
01:52:02,260 --> 01:51:59,150
on that because mark rodiger is one of

2575
01:52:04,300 --> 01:52:02,270
their is one of their guest experts so

2576
01:52:06,790 --> 01:52:04,310
he's in a lot of the episodes and

2577
01:52:09,910 --> 01:52:06,800
rightly so the guy's just he's he's an

2578
01:52:11,380 --> 01:52:09,920
encyclopedia of UFO lore but I've been

2579
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:11,390
very impressed with that show with the

2580
01:52:16,480 --> 01:52:14,810
way they recreate the UFO sightings in

2581
01:52:19,450 --> 01:52:16,490
fact that show was where I first learned

2582
01:52:21,910 --> 01:52:19,460
about the the war in Minnesota the the

2583
01:52:23,590 --> 01:52:21,920
sheriff's car in Minnesota that got

2584
01:52:26,830 --> 01:52:23,600
attacked by the UFO because they did a

2585
01:52:30,700 --> 01:52:26,840
really nice reenactment of that of that

2586
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:30,710
sighting so that down so again qualify

2587
01:52:35,050 --> 01:52:32,690
find the answer by saying I haven't seen

2588
01:52:37,960 --> 01:52:35,060
all the shows of the ones I've seen that

2589
01:52:39,700 --> 01:52:37,970
one impresses me I like it a lot uh-huh

2590
01:52:43,740 --> 01:52:39,710
yeah I think it's good when someone

2591
01:52:46,780 --> 01:52:43,750
sticks to the the story and does it well

2592
01:52:49,930 --> 01:52:46,790
but when you actually know a story and

2593
01:52:52,900 --> 01:52:49,940
you see that they're going wrong with it

2594
01:52:54,850 --> 01:52:52,910
or you've done some research on a story

2595
01:52:56,560 --> 01:52:54,860
and then you see that you know they're

2596
01:52:58,330 --> 01:52:56,570
bringing in other aspects to make it

2597
01:53:00,990 --> 01:52:58,340
more interesting it's too bad they feel

2598
01:53:03,730 --> 01:53:01,000
as though they have to you know

2599
01:53:07,930 --> 01:53:03,740
accentuate a story and change things to

2600
01:53:10,390 --> 01:53:07,940
make it better well a lot of that is

2601
01:53:12,340 --> 01:53:10,400
done on the cutting room floor - yes and

2602
01:53:16,010 --> 01:53:12,350
I just had a recent experience with that

2603
01:53:19,340 --> 01:53:16,020
I I just did my first cable TV guest

2604
01:53:21,220 --> 01:53:19,350
spurred appearance in July on mysteries

2605
01:53:24,740 --> 01:53:21,230
at the monument on the Travel Channel

2606
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:24,750
they did a story on the swamp gas case

2607
01:53:30,800 --> 01:53:27,690
in Michigan and they were they were

2608
01:53:34,700 --> 01:53:30,810
trying to make the case that that that

2609
01:53:36,440 --> 01:53:34,710
case was the exact moment when J Allen

2610
01:53:39,380 --> 01:53:36,450
Hynek changed his mind

2611
01:53:43,070 --> 01:53:39,390
and sort of recanted on UFOs and became

2612
01:53:45,050 --> 01:53:43,080
a believer and and why that case was

2613
01:53:46,550 --> 01:53:45,060
certainly part of the process Hynek went

2614
01:53:49,160 --> 01:53:46,560
through but it wasn't the exact moment

2615
01:53:50,690 --> 01:53:49,170
there wasn't any exact moment you know

2616
01:53:51,230 --> 01:53:50,700
was the point that I was trying to get

2617
01:53:53,390 --> 01:53:51,240
across

2618
01:53:55,820 --> 01:53:53,400
you know his him changing his mind

2619
01:53:57,920 --> 01:53:55,830
actually took place over about eight or

2620
01:53:59,930 --> 01:53:57,930
ten years there was a long painful

2621
01:54:01,730 --> 01:53:59,940
process for him to decide that he had

2622
01:54:03,260 --> 01:54:01,740
been wrong you know it didn't just

2623
01:54:05,570 --> 01:54:03,270
happen overnight it happened over a long

2624
01:54:07,730 --> 01:54:05,580
period of time but so I tried to get

2625
01:54:10,460 --> 01:54:07,740
that point across in my interview but

2626
01:54:12,380 --> 01:54:10,470
the producers of the show really wanted

2627
01:54:14,900 --> 01:54:12,390
to have that one dramatic moment where

2628
01:54:16,730 --> 01:54:14,910
you like you know Hynek as is epiphany

2629
01:54:18,980 --> 01:54:16,740
where he realizes he's been wronged and

2630
01:54:20,660 --> 01:54:18,990
he instantly changes his mind so that's

2631
01:54:23,930 --> 01:54:20,670
the storyline they went with I was a

2632
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:23,940
little disappointed so you know they got

2633
01:54:28,670 --> 01:54:26,010
the spirit of the story right but they

2634
01:54:30,910 --> 01:54:28,680
didn't get the details right but that's

2635
01:54:34,310 --> 01:54:30,920
what happens with these TV shows right

2636
01:54:36,730 --> 01:54:34,320
so we have like a minute and a half left

2637
01:54:40,760 --> 01:54:36,740
here so do you want to give out your

2638
01:54:44,900 --> 01:54:40,770
blog site sure it's high strangeness UFO

2639
01:54:47,900 --> 01:54:44,910
calm being a writer have you thought

2640
01:54:50,060 --> 01:54:47,910
about writing a book on the topic on

2641
01:54:52,550 --> 01:54:50,070
UFOs aside from the Hynek book you mean

2642
01:54:54,770 --> 01:54:52,560
right oh yeah I think about it all the

2643
01:54:57,230 --> 01:54:54,780
time and the end the blog has given me

2644
01:55:00,380 --> 01:54:57,240
between the blog and the work I've done

2645
01:55:02,660 --> 01:55:00,390
for MUFON there are a couple different

2646
01:55:04,670 --> 01:55:02,670
directions I could go with it and I

2647
01:55:06,290 --> 01:55:04,680
probably won't decide which direction to

2648
01:55:08,390 --> 01:55:06,300
go with it until I'm done with the Hynek

2649
01:55:11,510 --> 01:55:08,400
book to be honest yeah and when do you

2650
01:55:13,280 --> 01:55:11,520
expect that to be done well a lot

2651
01:55:15,050 --> 01:55:13,290
depends on what happens once my agents

2652
01:55:18,710 --> 01:55:15,060
start shopping around I would hope to

2653
01:55:20,480 --> 01:55:18,720
have it done in 2016 but but I'm new to

2654
01:55:22,100 --> 01:55:20,490
this public this book publishing world I

2655
01:55:24,170 --> 01:55:22,110
don't really know what kind of time

2656
01:55:29,430 --> 01:55:24,180
scale they operate on so I would I would

2657
01:55:31,320 --> 01:55:29,440
hope 2016 2017 I see okay well I

2658
01:55:33,689 --> 01:55:31,330
had a lot of fun tonight I want to thank

2659
01:55:35,070 --> 01:55:33,699
very much for you so much for inviting

2660
01:55:37,500 --> 01:55:35,080
me I've really enjoyed it and hope we

2661
01:55:39,270 --> 01:55:37,510
can do it again that's yes I'd like to

2662
01:55:41,220 --> 01:55:39,280
have you back when you when you get that

2663
01:55:43,229 --> 01:55:41,230
book published that would be best

2664
01:55:45,090 --> 01:55:43,239
all right deal all right all right

2665
01:55:47,430 --> 01:55:45,100
thanks a lot okay have a good night

2666
01:55:49,890 --> 01:55:47,440
yeah thank you okay everyone well that's

2667
01:55:51,959 --> 01:55:49,900
it for the show this evening and I

2668
01:55:53,939 --> 01:55:51,969
appreciate you all listening and all the

2669
01:55:55,170 --> 01:55:53,949
supporters out there appreciate all your

2670
01:55:57,110 --> 01:55:55,180
help you're giving me will get all that

2671
01:56:00,150 --> 01:55:57,120
straightened out next week as a

2672
01:56:03,870 --> 01:56:00,160
pre-recorded show and on that show I

2673
01:56:05,820 --> 01:56:03,880
have class spawn and dr. Erik Farooq

2674
01:56:08,010 --> 01:56:05,830
kind of a science II show you're gonna

2675
01:56:09,930 --> 01:56:08,020
love that one I won't be around I won't

2676
01:56:12,630 --> 01:56:09,940
even be on the chatroom I'll be sleeping

2677
01:56:15,330 --> 01:56:12,640
somewhere in Russia and so that's it for

2678
01:56:17,700 --> 01:56:15,340
this show and thank you so much for

2679
01:56:19,770 --> 01:56:17,710
listening and you can listen the same